Is Homosexuality inherent or conditional?

[tygloalex]

With all the threads of homosexuality/bisexuality and this forum being really good for not flaming people who express their opinions, I'd like to ask a question. Do you believe homosexual or lesbian people are born to be that way (aka chromosomes and such) or through different life events, people become that way? Also, do you think that some homosexuals are socially pressured into being straight?

[fmian]

I think homosexuality is conditional. Young children are influenced enough by their surroundings to attribute to something drastic like them becoming homosexual. That's why I'm totally against people who are single parents by choice (ie. Madonna).

That's all just my opinion though.

[Tom Banjo]

I think it's probably a combination of the two. IMO some people will have the tendency because of their genetics, but it'd take a situation or series of events to lead to someone acting on those tendencies.

[Betho]

I agree with Banjo. For instance, I think it's possible for guys to be born with effeminate characteristics, but I think being gay is a product of surroundings.

I consider myself bi-curious and I wasn't always that way, but my curiosity was "conditioned", I know this for a fact.

[fmian]

Originally posted by Betho
I consider myself bi-curious and I wasn't always that way, but my curiosity was "conditioned", I know this for a fact.

Let me guess, you use Pantene? Wait, no, Herbal Essences? :)

I'd like to know what some of the gay members of the board think about this issue. I've only ever heard gay people claim that it's 100% genetic. I suppose that's just part of the whole gay stereotype though.

[joeblow69]

As a gay man, I really don't know what "caused" me to be gay. I can remember being attracted to men all the way back in the 6th grade (ah, my Science teacher had such a nice ass!)

I can't remember any specific event or conditioning that would have caused me to be attracted to men, though. I just always was.

It does strike me as odd that straight people would claim to know the answer to this puzzle. Believe me, unless you've been there, you have no idea.

[Corleone]

Originally posted by fmian
I think homosexuality is conditional. Young children are influenced enough by their surroundings to attribute to something drastic like them becoming homosexual. That's why I'm totally against people who are single parents by choice (ie. Madonna).

That's all just my opinion though.

Isn't she married to Guy Ritche?

[Julie Walker]

Originally posted by joeblow69

It does strike me as odd that straight people would claim to know the answer to this puzzle. Believe me, unless you've been there, you have no idea.



Right on!




Now to turn the tables since straight people try to come up with theories to what 'makes' a person gay or 'different'.


Where you ever conditioned or 'chose' to be heterosexual or where just born that way?

[JustinS]

For starters, there is no "gay/straight" light switch. There are guys like me who have no sexual attraction to members of the same sex. There are guys (like perhaps joeblow) who have little or any sexual attraction to members of the opposite sex. There are millions more somewhere in between. If we wanted to act as cheesy first-year psychology students, we could create a spectrum and plot everyone on it.

Sexual attraction, the need to procreate, is clearly an inherent predisposition among most animal scecies. I find it difficult to fathom a compelling argument that this basic desire is conditional among human beings or any other species. A predilection for redheads in black latex or a foot fetish is conditional, a basic desire to f**k is not.

Back to our spectrum. Let's focus on the individuals at the homosexual end of that spectrum. Talk to them. Ask them about their childhoods. I have. Almost to a man and woman you will get answers like the one that joeblow gave:

As a gay man, I really don't know what "caused" me to be gay. I can remember being attracted to men all the way back in the 6th grade.

Conditional? OK, what conditions? Surely they must be conditions that are completely independent of culture to explain, for example, berdaches in Native American tribes or the prominent homosexuals of Ancient Greece or the documented cases of homosexuals among nomadic African bushmen tribes, no?

Homosexuality, like heterosexuality, is tempered by environmental conditions, but it is not created by these conditions. Its existence springs from the genes. Can I prove this? No. Do I believe it in my bones? Yup.

[just_al]

Look at it this way...

Homosexuals are treated very badly by our society when it all balances out. Persecution, Discrimination, gay bashing, you name it.

Why would anybody choose to carry the baggage associated with being gay?

Gay people can no more help being attracted to their own sex than I can help liking boobs. They are just wired that way.

[focker]

Originally posted by JustinS
Homosexuality, like heterosexuality, is tempered by environmental conditions, but it is not created by these conditions. Its existence springs from the genes. Can I prove this? No. Do I believe it in my bones? Yup. :up:

I think this is by far the best explanation. I feel very much that I was born attracted to women. Most gay people similarly report that they feel attracted to the same sex from a very young age, for as long as they can remember. They feel that they were born that way. Who am I to argue, especially when I feel the same way about my sexual orientation?

I wonder if there have been any good twin studies done on sexual orientation. Maybe I'll go digging and see what I can find.

[Hotblack]

Originally posted by focker

I wonder if there have been any good twin studies done on sexual orientation. Maybe I'll go digging and see what I can find.

Not twins, but my brother and I are close in age, and our upbringing and home environment was pretty much the same. He's gay and I'm straight, and it seems to me that our sexuality is very much inherent, and was obvious from an early age.

What was conditional is that our family is accepting and tolerant, which gave him the freedom to be honest with us about who he is.

[woofman]

First of all :thumbsup: to everyone for keeping this a civil and intelligent thread. Now for my .02 cents :)

I can honestly say that as a gay man that I have been attracted to other men for as long as I can remember. As a young child I always had a much greater "curiosity" towards males, even though it wasn't sexual in any way. Looking back to my teenage years and even early 20's before I had figured out my sexuality for myself I had absolutely no physical attraction to women whatsoever, and not just from a lack of trying. It took many years for me to put two and two together to figure out where the confusion stemmed from. Once I did put it all together though, it all made complete sense, and more importantly, it felt right . All of those confusing feelings I had had growing up now made complete sense and were just another testament to my true sexual orientation.

[PerpleNerple]

I don't believe it's inherent, and I just don't believe that anything as far as taste is inherited. If that were the case, I'd love country music, cause that's what my parents listened to and loved. I personally can't stand that sheit! I love to go down on women, I could stay down there for hours, my dad hasn't ever and would never eat pu$$y. I leave alot of info of my life out of my parents, why? because they wouldn't approve. Why wouldn't they approve? Because they don't have the same tastes as me. And I don't believe it was conditional. As some of the gay men have stated that they can remember at a very young age that they were attracted to men, I remember telling a girl that I wanted to be with her in 4th grade, I've been obsessed with women, pleasing them, being with them and loving them all my life. The same question goes for men who cheat. Why do some men cheat, and some don't. I never have and I don't understand why anyone would even need to. If you're happy with what you've got, why go anywhere else. If you're not happy with what you've got, then why are you sticking around and risking their life to be with someone else?

I love extremely kinky sex, and will try just about anything once. I don't know where this came from, and I don't know why, and I don't really care, I just am. I love me, and I have a great personality, and I have great friends and family. Nothing else matters when you're happy with yourself.

[JesseCuster]

Originally posted by joeblow69

It does strike me as odd that straight people would claim to know the answer to this puzzle. Believe me, unless you've been there, you have no idea.

I don't think you necessarily have to be gay to have a strong opinion on the subject, though I think it helps to have gay friends or acquaintances from an observational standpoint. I feel very strongly that a person is born one way or the other, though I think conditioning, in extreme situations such as prison, can lead to elective homosexual behavior among people who normally might not take part in it. All of the people who I knew to be gay in high school acted gay from the point at which everyone their age was experiencing their first doses of hormone driven sexuality. If people are conditioned to be homosexual, why are some people (most if not all in my experience) homosexual from the beginning of their sexual development? There's presumably no experience yet that would have conditioned them one way or the other, at least not in such a drastic way. The argument I keep hearing from religious right "conditionalists" is that men (and vice versa for women) that are gay tried women, didn't like women and for selfish reasons of their own decided, as casually as they would pick out a tie in the morning, to start having sex with other men. -rolleyes-

I grew up and still live in the southeast and the attitude here is "he's queer and he choose to be that way so he's going to hell". It's an uptight and puritanical region. Outside of more sophisticated areas such as Atlanta, there's very little sympathy or understanding of homosexual people in this part of the country and it really gets old after a while. I can't imagine what it's like to actually live as a gay person down here. The results of a study I once read stated that there are more closet homosexuals in this part of the U.S. than in any other and I can definitely understand it.

[YellowLedbetter]

I have a question...and it is a purely scientific/evolutionary question. How does homosexuality fit in with evolution of the human species? It seems to me that the number of homosexual people are increasing or maybe just comfortable with expressing themselves.

[woofman]

Originally posted by YellowLedbetter
I have a question...and it is a purely scientific/evolutionary question. How does homosexuality fit in with evolution of the human species? It seems to me that the number of homosexual people are increasing or maybe just comfortable with expressing themselves.

My guess would be that the number is only increasing incrementally(sp) with the over-all population. Also the fact that more people feel comfortable being themselves out in the open than in any other time in history.

[digitalfreaknyc]

Originally posted by fmian
I think homosexuality is conditional. Young children are influenced enough by their surroundings to attribute to something drastic like them becoming homosexual. That's why I'm totally against people who are single parents by choice (ie. Madonna).

That's all just my opinion though.


Madonna is married...

*sigh*

I just don't have the energy to be aggravated by your response.

[jim_mailman1962]

I am gay and well I feel that it has to do with the surroundings of when you're young, around 1-8 years of age, you may not know it 'til later on 12+ but I learned I was gay when I was 12. Me and my brother, we were both playing truth or dare and he dared me to look at his playboy, I said sure, and I just stared at the guy in the ad with a 12" dick!! It was just so yummy! Although 12" to me now, is just unattractive.

[The Pro]

it doesn't seem like gayness would be genetic at all, i mean, it goes against darwinism, which seems to be real.

[TNDVDFAN]

I think it's a little of both. In my case, I was born gay. I was raised in a very strict religious southern home. I didn't even know what sex was until I was 13. That's when I had my 1st sexual experience with another person (we were the same age). Up until that time I was attracted to guys but just didn't know anything about sex.
I am now 32. Since I live in the South I still must maintain a low profile. Only a few people know at work and in my family. It's a shame that it's like that but I really don't feel the need to 'come out.'
I am happy just minding my own business and hopefully, people that know me will mind theirs. I honestly don't care what others in the world think of homosexuality. They don't pay my bills. Screw'em.

[Mikey]

For those who tend to believe that homosexuality is predominately due to the environment... the overwhelming majority of gay people were raised by straight parents. Therefore, it would follow that they were influenced to be straight by their parents. This brings up the question then, how do people become gay when they are surrounded by straight individuals and ideals? Some may argue that they were mollested and then became gay, but that accounts for a small ammount of the gay population. The majority were raised by straights, grew up with straights and then just turned out the be gay during the puberty years or later. Therefore, the argument for gays' sexual prefernce being based predominately on genetics is strengthened. I believe that the environment can play a minor role in shaping sexuality, such as growing up in a home where gay teens are welcomed and not shunned, however the majority of psychological studies suggest that being gay is poredominately due to genetics.

[wm lopez]

The men that act like women and the women who act like men has to be conditional. I mean if people can be born with 2 heads stuck together why can't people be born with their sex mixed up? There are those who because they see on MTV that being gay is the thing now also experiment. I remember seeing a 10 year old boy in the 1974 who acted like a girl. Wore his pants tight like a girl, had the limp wrist and all that. Now back then there was nowhere he could learn that at that age, it came natural.

[icondude]

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