Who"s the oldest virgin here?

[Mark Thompson]

Do you have any family, wergo et al? I'm only wondering this because my family have remained fragmented and scattered. I put mostly down to my perpetuating situation is because I now don't have any friends and I'm trying to get out of unemployment. I've had a lot of rejections recently from agencies and it looks as though I'm going to have to take anything.

Which is fine and I'm going to have to hope that I can breakthrough into something which is near to what I want while I'm doing this. I should've done this long ago and because of it I've left a long trail of long periods of unemployment. Our country could well do with taking a leaf out of yours.

I won't take all of the blame though because I think there have been a few injustices done against me I won't go into and here I am also now with no social network whatsoever. I've been on my own so long now that it feels as if I'm always meant to be this way and suffer the impending torture of time.

[wergo]

Do you have any family, wergo et al? I'm only wondering this because my family have remained fragmented and scattered.

Yeah, but I haven't spoken to any of them in years. I think my dad is still living in Ontario. He remarried about ten years ago and moved to a new house. I wasn't given the address or phone number. Last I heard, my mother was living with my sister and her husband. Until I get married and have kids, too, they really don't want anything to do with me.

On a lighter note, anyone remember this old article? http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39013
Something to laugh at and be depressed about at the same time. You know, like that Lindsay Lohan photo.

[betam4x]

Well wergo, someone else would have to tell you more about that, as my social skills SUCK (remember, though i'm younger, i was in the same boat you are up until a year ago.) Just start a conversation. If you are at a bar, sit near guys that are watching a game or something, watch how they react to the game, and make a comment about the game based on how they react. For instance, if team a is kicking team b's ass and the guy is getting mad about it, bring up how team b should be winning and team a is a bunch of cheap asses. I've been experimenting around socially, trying to improve myself, and i've found that, by appealing to a person's interests, and getting them to talk about themselves, you can get them (guys or girls) to be a lot more friendly.

[lucasorion]

damn guys, this thread is starting to veer into some creepy territory with this "how do I rap to other guys" topic. If you have something to say to another guy, say it, if you get along well, fine - don't start mixing that in with the issue you have with getting along with women. Guys become friends because they have similar interests and their personalities mesh, it's a totally different animal from the man-woman dynamic.

One thing I haven't really picked up on from all the posts by guys like Mark and wergo is what kind of personality they actually have. Are you guys blank slates, or do you have interests? What are the "landmarks" of your persona?

You get what you give. If you're going out there putting out nothing but neediness, offering no compelling reason why someone should want to know more about you, why should they? Because your life hasn't been fair, and you deserve a break?

[wergo]

One thing I haven't really picked up on from all the posts by guys like Mark and wergo is what kind of personality they actually have. Are you guys blank slates, or do you have interests? What are the "landmarks" of your persona?

You get what you give. If you're going out there putting out nothing but neediness, offering no compelling reason why someone should want to know more about you, why should they? Because your life hasn't been fair, and you deserve a break?

Well, offering a compelling reason why someone should want to know more about me is something I could do once I'm on a date, but it's kinda hard to bring up when you're cold-approaching strangers. Like I said earlier, you kinda have to improvise based on whatever's around that you can discuss.

Drop me in the deep end of a conversation about politics, quantum physics, the new commentary track on Criterion's remastered 'Seven Samurai', whether Veronica belongs with Duncan or Logan, how Noam Chomsky's linguistic theories possibly affect his political views, whether Jon Stewart is funnier than Stephen Colbert, Karen Armstrong's books on the history of religion, whether Courteney Cox is sexier than Jennifer Anniston, why William S. Burroughs's later novels are underrated, the state of improvised avant-garde music (especially in Japan) or why 'Passion Of The Christ' was a load of bullcrap and I can at least hold my head above water.

It's kind of hard to talk about what subjects interest me (or that I'd like to/am able to discuss in general with people) without thread-crapping. Especially on a board like this, where there are no shortage of other topic threads.

[ophelya]

hello guys.what boy wanna chat with me?:)

[solipsta]

damn guys, this thread is starting to veer into some creepy territory with this "how do I rap to other guys" topic. If you have something to say to another guy, say it, if you get along well, fine - don't start mixing that in with the issue you have with getting along with women. Guys become friends because they have similar interests and their personalities mesh, it's a totally different animal from the man-woman dynamic.
I totally disagree. If you want a normal, natural relationship with a woman, it's my opinion that the difference between talking to her and talking to a guy is negligible. It's about baby steps. If it would be easier for these guys to talk to other guys then that's a good step. THEN move on to the harder step of talking to women.

You said, "Guys become friends because they have similar interests and their personalities mesh, it's a totally different animal from the man-woman dynamic.". What do you mean by this? If you mean what I think you mean, I totally think you're wrong. I'm with my partner because she's easy to talk to, we have similar interests and we just click. Yes, she's sexy as hell and all that, but the other stuff is veryvery important. And if I can't even make and keep any friends, there would have been no chance that I would have ended up with her...

[Mark Thompson]

Here's a post by a 41-year-old at the bottom of this thread through this link: http://monstersarcasmrally.typepad.com/30yearoldvirgin/2006/04/why.html#comments
Just thought I'd let you know, that's all. I say it's always best to show someone they're not alone as much as possible even though it probably doesn't make any difference anyway even if it's just possibly the tiniest momentarily. I wouldn't know just yet, but I had been thinking through the day while doing the gardening and even though I was doing some work to keep my mind occupied (for someone else) I felt really down. It must be deathly depressing later on in life and if it'd be anything motivating me in the future then it'd be fear. I manage to ward it away by blocking it out and I think that's always been the problem with me in all areas of life that I've been able to bury my head in the sand. When I come to thinking about changing myself I just burst into tears and there's no-one there for me to talk to or give me support so I don't want to open up fully as it tears me apart.

[lucasorion]

I totally disagree...

The difference is in the beginning. If some guy starts talking to me about the way the nba has changed in the last ten years or something while we're both watching a game at a sports bar, I don't have a near-instantaneous reaction where I decide if I think he is friend material. When a woman meets a man, she makes that decision about him as a potential mate. Of course, you passed that test with your current gf, and then you and she found out that you have things in common, etc.

[Vandelay_Inds]

Yeah, but I haven't spoken to any of them in years. I think my dad is still living in Ontario. He remarried about ten years ago and moved to a new house. I wasn't given the address or phone number. Last I heard, my mother was living with my sister and her husband. Until I get married and have kids, too, they really don't want anything to do with me.

Boy, you've really had it tough buddy. We've got a lot in common, but differ in the fundamental point that I decided long ago I was going to pursue my passions and stop pretending a regular life is an option for me. I've been happy ever since.

[solipsta]

The difference is in the beginning. If some guy starts talking to me about the way the nba has changed in the last ten years or something while we're both watching a game at a sports bar, I don't have a near-instantaneous reaction where I decide if I think he is friend material. When a woman meets a man, she makes that decision about him as a potential mate. Of course, you passed that test with your current gf, and then you and she found out that you have things in common, etc.
My girlfriend disliked me when she first met me. :) Thought I was obnoxious and despised the company I kept. ;)

And I think we do make decisions about if a person is friend material or not. There's just not a huge emphasis put on it like there is for mate material.

[lucasorion]

My girlfriend disliked me when she first met me. :) Thought I was obnoxious and despised the company I kept. ;)

She might have disliked some things about you, but I guarantee you struck some kind of chord that kept ringing in her, whatever her distaste about certain aspects of you.

[Mark Thompson]

You don't need a family like that, wergo. It reminds me of the scenario where the father disowns his son just because he's gay, but if and when you do find someone which I hope you do, I wouldn't have anything to do with them if I were you. You're all decent guys, okay Testy sounds completely depressed in his posts but that's totally understandable though he's well-meaning. If I won the lottery which I don't play, you'd all be first on my list if it meant that I'd be helping you in some way to get there.

Lucasorion: That's the thing, I don't think I've got anyone anything to offer.

[Nick Danger]

Well, offering a compelling reason why someone should want to know more about me is something I could do once I'm on a date, but it's kinda hard to bring up when you're cold-approaching strangers. Like I said earlier, you kinda have to improvise based on whatever's around that you can discuss.

Drop me in the deep end of a conversation about politics, quantum physics, the new commentary track on Criterion's remastered 'Seven Samurai', whether Veronica belongs with Duncan or Logan, how Noam Chomsky's linguistic theories possibly affect his political views, whether Jon Stewart is funnier than Stephen Colbert, Karen Armstrong's books on the history of religion, whether Courteney Cox is sexier than Jennifer Anniston, why William S. Burroughs's later novels are underrated, the state of improvised avant-garde music (especially in Japan) or why 'Passion Of The Christ' was a load of bullcrap and I can at least hold my head above water.

There you go. Take a night class of film appreciation.

[wergo]

There you go. Take a night class of film appreciation.

You mean those places where they charge you $400 to watch scratchy prints of 'The Searchers' and 'Rashomon' and be told how they influenced popular movies? Do they still have those, or have DVDs (and commentary tracks) not made them pretty much obsolete?

I went to a few of them back in the 80s, but I didn't find them any more social than just going to the movies by myself. There were never any women there, and the guys weren't there trying to make friends. I've never found that any night school course is particularly social. (Probably because they're far too expensive for that; few people can afford to spend so much money if it's not for course credit or to help get a promotion at work)

[lucasorion]

Wergo - Your personality isn't just things you can talk about. Those are things about other people, things they have accomplished - you just partake in them. When I asked about the "landmarks" of your persona, I was referring to things like humor (big part of mine) and other qualities - things that define your interactions with people on a human level, not just an intellectual one.

I have a feeling a lot of us have issues with holding parts of ourselves back when we deal with people. I know that the people I've worked with for almost 6 years now really have no idea what kind of person I am. The same was true back when I was in school. I always got along with people, even the most popular kids in school, but I also kept myself at a distance that prevented any good friendships or relationships.

Wergo uses a term "cold approach" about the way he walks up to women, and I think it is probably a very accurate description. Confidence is important, and I think it must come before success (you seem to think you're going to have to wait for the ultimate success before developing confidence) - but so is basic human warmth. You have to like talking to people, learning about what is going on with them, etc. It can't just be an exercise in fulfilling YOUR desires.

When I have a nice little moment talking to some attractive woman, like yesterday with a trainer at my gym, I get confidence even though it was just a friendly interaction with no sexual context. I was warm, I looked her in the eye when I talked to her, and walked away without any "doh's!" reverberating in my head over some real or perceived screw-ups. The first time I met her, we had a training session where she was showing me how to use some equipment. I was so uncomfortable even watching her because she was so hot, and so 'lightly' dressed, that I think I must have spent most of the session looking away from her.

Yesterday when we were talking for a moment, I didn't feel abashed - if anything I might have been the one "with hand" as George Costanza might say. I've been learning that sometimes we give away our power to women in proportion to the power of our attraction to them. This only serves as a negative signal to them. We don't have to pretend we aren't attracted in order to maintain our equal footing, we just have to keep things in proportion - "Yeah you're hot, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're the woman of my dreams"

[Nick Danger]

You mean those places where they charge you $400 to watch scratchy prints of 'The Searchers' and 'Rashomon' and be told how they influenced popular movies? Do they still have those, or have DVDs (and commentary tracks) not made them pretty much obsolete?

DVD commentary tracks have made them obsolete for people who want to sit at home all alone, yes. If you want to talk to people with a more sophisticated taste in movies than those shown your average cineplex, they might be fun.

Are you aware that the tone of your response is just barely civil?

[wergo]

Wergo - Your personality isn't just things you can talk about. Those are things about other people, things they have accomplished - you just partake in them. When I asked about the "landmarks" of your persona, I was referring to things like humor (big part of mine) and other qualities - things that define your interactions with people on a human level, not just an intellectual one.


True; one of the biggest frustrations I have is that my "interests" have pretty much devolved into passive ones. Reading about (for instance) someone else's life instead of living my own. The basic problem is, my personality has developed (assuming it has, and I'm not saying that I am) in a relative vacuum.

My interactions with people are exactly what I want to learn how to develop. I've not really HAD any interaction with people on a human level. I've never even had any friends.

As I said earlier, it's not so difficult to make small talk for a minute or so with a stranger but that doesn't develop any real personality traits. What I'm looking for are chances to have interactions with people that last for more than a minute or two so that I can have a "human level." How is that supposed to happen without a catalyst (or at least an appropriate venue)?

It hasn't happened yet, so I have no way of knowing how that might theoretically go. All I can do (is there a way of preparing for it?) is hope that I can improvise based on letting the other person take the lead (everyone loves a good listener, right?) and try not to screw it up.

[wergo]

DVD commentary tracks have made them obsolete for people who want to sit at home all alone, yes. If you want to talk to people with a more sophisticated taste in movies than those shown your average cineplex, they might be fun.

Well, I haven't seen anything like this listed in night school course catalogs since the 80s. I really don't think they exist any more.

Are you aware that the tone of your response is just barely civil?

Not really. ?

[solipsta]

She might have disliked some things about you, but I guarantee you struck some kind of chord that kept ringing in her, whatever her distaste about certain aspects of you.
Sure, but you don't think the same thing goes for friends? Or do you think any guy can be friends with any guy no matter what?

[lucasorion]

I don't think I inferred that. Guys can be friends with other guys if they get along and have things in common. I'm just pointing out what I thought was obvious and generally accepted... men and women relate on a different level with each other than they do with their own gender (excepting homosexuality) - from the very first milliseconds of meeting there are chemical and sociological interactions going on that are very different from when you are meeting someone who isn't a potential mate.

[Del Preston]

...

[solipsta]

I don't think I inferred that. Guys can be friends with other guys if they get along and have things in common.
Just as guys can get along with girls if they get along and have things in common.

I'm just pointing out what I thought was obvious and generally accepted... men and women relate on a different level with each other than they do with their own gender (excepting homosexuality) - from the very first milliseconds of meeting there are chemical and sociological interactions going on that are very different from when you are meeting someone who isn't a potential mate.
Yes, that's all fairly general knowledge but I believe that it's almost detrimental to think about all that when you're trying to meet new people, especially if you've had problems with it in the past. If you put it in someone's head that there's something different going on between when they meet men and when they meet women, it's going to make life seem even harder. Yes, there's a difference. But it's a miniscule difference that we, as non-sociologists and non-psychologists, need not worry about. Go out there and meet people. Man, woman, whatever. You should really be doing the same thing in either circumstance, IMO. We're all people and the "chemical and sociological" thingamabobbers happen whether we're paying attention or not.

[Testy]

You're all decent guys, okay Testy sounds completely depressed in his posts but that's totally understandable though he's well-meaning.

The reason I probably sound completely depressed in my posts is because I am completely depressed. :)

I am taking anti-depressants to try to relieve some of the depression, and to a certain extent it helps.

However, I don't think there's a pill made that can overcome the feelings of self-loathing and despair that I often have. The older I get, the worse it gets. 41 is just around the corner, and I am in no way looking forward to that.

[lucasorion]

Just as guys can get along with girls if they get along and have things in common.


uhh yeah, but we're not just looking to get along with women. I've "gotten along" with women all my life.


Yes, that's all fairly general knowledge but I believe that it's almost detrimental to think about all that when you're trying to meet new people, especially if you've had problems with it in the past. If you put it in someone's head that there's something different going on between when they meet men and when they meet women, it's going to make life seem even harder. Yes, there's a difference. But it's a miniscule difference that we, as non-sociologists and non-psychologists, need not worry about. Go out there and meet people. Man, woman, whatever. You should really be doing the same thing in either circumstance, IMO. We're all people and the "chemical and sociological" thingamabobbers happen whether we're paying attention or not.

It's not about what you're DOING in either circumstance, it's about what you are aware of. Men need to be aware of the impressions they are making, as a man, with women in particular. The difference is not miniscule, it is the difference between being seen as a likable person, and being seen as a likable potential mate. I'm not saying you need to obsess over things and have your head smoking trying to evaluate a thousand things while you're talking to someone - you need to learn though, and you need to integrate what you learn.

[solipsta]

I've "gotten along" with women all my life.
As have I. But I don't think that's true of everyone in this thread. Anyways, it was when I started seeing women just as people, not as mystical creatures that I started having success with them.

It's not about what you're DOING in either circumstance, it's about what you are aware of. Men need to be aware of the impressions they are making, as a man, with women in particular. The difference is not miniscule, it is the difference between being seen as a likable person, and being seen as a likable potential mate. I'm not saying you need to obsess over things and have your head smoking trying to evaluate a thousand things while you're talking to someone - you need to learn though, and you need to integrate what you learn.
I don't think a person should be acting different for men and women. Just be who you are. Yes, learn and integrate what works and what doesn't, but be what you've learned. The most attractive thing is someone that knows who they are and are being that person. Not someone who's acting the part based on what they think works.

[lucasorion]

Basically I am just trying to say that "just being yourself" isn't adequate when your self needs change. People often seem to plateau and stop changing very early in adulthood - which works fine for the average person who already learned what they needed to learn to get by socially, etc. - but when you have a void in your development as a person and a man, you can't just be yourself and expect different results. The issue isn't just putting women up on a pedestal or something like that for most of us, I think. For me I think it was a combination of long-term depression and the lack of a real male role model when I needed one (from adolescence on, my step-father was more of an antagonist than a father)

[solipsta]

Basically I am just trying to say that "just being yourself" isn't adequate when your self needs change. People often seem to plateau and stop changing very early in adulthood - which works fine for the average person who already learned what they needed to learn to get by socially, etc. - but when you have a void in your development as a person and a man, you can't just be yourself and expect different results. The issue isn't just putting women up on a pedestal or something like that for most of us, I think. For me I think it was a combination of long-term depression and the lack of a real male role model when I needed one (from adolescence on, my step-father was more of an antagonist than a father)
Yeah, we've gone way too far off the "relating to men vs women" track here. Yes, it's related but it's not even close to what I was disputing...

[Mark Thompson]

Testy, I'm sorry and I'm not surprised at all as I said I'd been doing a little imagining about it. I guess the actual being is far worse than trying to think what it'd be like later in life and I really don't know. I can understand no telling you how hyped up sex is and it's no big deal is going to reassure you.

Because it doesn't me and it's the actual principle of the thing that causes the depression. You are to be admired though and even though it'd take courage to go to a professional like it would me, why should you? I think I'd think the same; you've waited so long so why should you change it for anyone

The actual act of giving up what you've wanted to give to someone you love to anyone. I believe saving it for someone who could love you is the most romantic thing and to just throw it away could never make amends for the loneliness you're suffering. All you want is to have a social life even if you didn't manage to lose the v but the ironic thing is this usually leads to that.

[Testy]

Well, things may have taken a dramatic turn...

I met a lady at work who shares many of my interests, is extremely nice, and quite attractive. We're going out to lunch even. Ever since I met her, I haven't been able to stop thinking about her. I'm having feelings that I've never experienced before, and I am so happy right now I don't know what to think. I mean, it would be great if this actually turns into something.

But in the meantime, I am beginning to see a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel and see some hope again for myself...

[Gunde]

Hey congrats man!!!
That's great, best of luck!

[Nick Danger]

Testy: Very cool! Have fun!

[Mark Thompson]

That's wonderful news, Testy. So you see there is someone who has taken an interest in you and that's positive in itself. I said it was just a case of finding someone understanding and I can understand one can become cynical mixed in with the depression. I really hope and prey that it does lead as well as encourage you. To be positive, you've not only got something you share in common but you'd have something to offer a potential woman anywhere something not many men could.

I hope this doesn't make the other later virgins feel bad they've been left behind but would like to think that Testy serve as an example for us all. What you've needed is a confidence boost and I hope what you present will encourage us do something and not be ashamed of our situation even if it's at a proxy, ie: online. Never stop trying like looking for a job. It's never too late until it's the day before we die, my friend.

[Bluelitespecial]

As much as I am happy for you testy. It can make the rest of us
depressed. I am approaching 25 very soon,still a virgin, and no dating potential in the near future. good luck though.

[wergo]

Yeah, Testy, here's hoping you can move out of this thread and only have to come back to visit.

[Mark Thompson]

I don't know what you mean, Bluelitespecial. 25's still very young and you're not within Testy's age range so surely if it's persons who should be depressed then that'd be the other two on here, but obviously they're going to wish him the best of luck. Shouldn't that give you hope or does it make you think that you're going to have to wait a long time based on luck? If I knew without a shadow of a doubt at any time in my lifetime I was going to meet someone then I wouldn't mind how long and gives hope

[Bluelitespecial]

Its hard for me because the odds are stacked against me right now. I am 24 and a recent college graduate looking for my first real job, but I live at home with my parents. Girls only want guys who have all their shit together(living on their own, have a good job, all of that good stuff). Then there expectations are insane, you have to be more experienced with sex than they are or you have no chance whatsoever. Plus the way women look when they go out to bars and clubs truely scares me, it puts them on a level that no man is ever good enough. I haven't had a real date in over two years.

[Mark Thompson]

Well I've got words for you, bluelitespecial. I'm not far off 30, I'm long-term unemployed (longer than most people) and I've never even had a date. After coming back from somewhere before sounding just like you I was just beginning to may be have some hope (call it delusion or whatever) but after reading your last post it has knocked me for six. You have even more than me, are younger and yet you are discouraged after seeing more than me. This does not give me hope and depressed now.

[Bluelitespecial]

Well I've got words for you, bluelitespecial. I'm not far off 30, I'm long-term unemployed (longer than most people) and I've never even had a date. After coming back from somewhere before sounding just like you I was just beginning to may be have some hope (call it delusion or whatever) but after reading your last post it has knocked me for six. You have even more than me, are younger and yet you are discouraged after seeing more than me. This does not give me hope and depressed now.

I never meant to sound this bad Mark, its just frustrating especially when all of your friends brag to you about how much they get laid, you hold some pretty dark secrets of your non sexual past, and how bitter you are at women in general.

[Mark Thompson]

I'm sorry, Bluelitespecial. I wouldn't say I'm bitter about women in general because I never said I was and I don't know what gave you the impression of that. I'd say I'm bitter about myself and I know that I've only got myself to blame for that. I haven't really tried for me to feel bitter about women and I don't feel that I ever would towards them because I'd feel that it'd be me that's the problem not them. I feel that I have a problem even now and if there's a saving grace then that'd be the delusion.

[Testy]

As much as I am happy for you testy. It can make the rest of us
depressed. I am approaching 25 very soon,still a virgin, and no dating potential in the near future. good luck though.

Blue,

I felt exactly like you all my life. You're only 25, you've got plenty of time to turn things around. But don't let time pass you by either. It wasn't that long ago that I was 25 (or it sure seems like it). Boom, all of a sudden you're 40 and wondering what the hell happened to the last 15-20 years of your life.

I don't know how this will all turn out yet, but at least it's given me some hope. I'll have to see how I feel in another week. Could be the best week of my life, could be the worst - but at least it'll be different than before :)

[Bluelitespecial]

I am really 24 I just meant that I will be 25 very soon.

[RocShemp]

I see no reason to bemoan Testy's success. I'm glad for him. The only thing that makes me depressed is my own constant failure. The whole "never been laid" issue doesn't even bother me. I'm about to be 26 and am actually looking for a serious relationship but have the problem of being attracted to women I'm no good for. Heck, recently I fell hard for a girl I've only known for a few months (scarily fast for me) and things were seemingly going well (she's sweet and I got the feeling she likes me) but recently I found out she hooked up with a guy I know and, well... I freely admit that I'm totally outclassed. That is not made worse (or better) by Testy finally seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. It's just my own crappy situation and I'm glad to know that not everyone has to go through what I go through. Why should everyone else suffer because I'm miserable? So, again, I applaud Testy and his success.

[Mark Thompson]

What a thoughtful thing to say, RocShemp. I thought that about my friend that he wouldn't be able to handle going through life without anybody in comparison to me but I don't think I would either now. I certainly don't think I'd be able to handle being in my 40's that way but as I edge ever closer then maybe I'd get used to the misery, I don't know. That's why I still don't agree with them making a movie about it he had friends to help him and not everyone's got that. It must've made lots feel worse.

[lucasorion]

Mark, get yourself to the point where you know you can be alone with yourself - for any length of time - and then you have reason for some confidence among others. Forget about your chronological age, it is irrelevant, you can grow more emotionally (where you need a lot of growth) in any five year period than most people do in their lifetimes. You need to build a strength that allows you not to be in a place where you make statements about how someone's internet posting has made you lose hope and feel depressed, or the inverse. The way you express yourself rings alarm bells to me about how you communicate with people in real life, and I don't know where to begin with advice about that - but solving these issues is up to you to initiate. Your biggest problem is not your virginity, or your solitude - they are only by-products.

[RocShemp]

BTW, why is this thread in Adult Talk? Couldn't it have easily fit in the Other Forum?

[Nightrider662]

Testy

I'm very happy for you. While it does depress me that I'll probably never have anybody,it's great to hear things might be changing for you. I wouldn't wish the sadness I have on anybody. To everybody that are still in their 20's, you guys are still young. Go out and live. Don't let life pass you by. Before you know it you'll be 41 and constantly asking yourself why am I still alone?

[Mark Thompson]

I don't know about that, Nightrider662. I'd happily take your sadness away from you if I could and give it to someone who does deserve it. The perpetrators of your past who left you badly broken for one thing and I think that there're plenty of rotten people in this world. You are a good man along with Wergo and doubtless others in the same situation as you. Lucasorion, thank you very much for your advice and I'll have a think about what you said. Just thought I'd drop a link with a post in it by a 47-year-old: http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts4307562.aspx Not all nice.

There's a 41-year-old Christian somewhere near the bottom in this link: http://monstersarcasmrally.typepad.com/30yearoldvirgin/2006/04/why.html#comments

Sometimes I think it's mad to make such a resolute sacrifice if unlike me you've got the opportunity but doubtless I respect their decision totally. Bye.

[Masana]

Hot 48 years old virgin ;)

[Mark Thompson]

Update: I may well be in for a job for a place I've been at before for the next six months so it's something as a data processor, that's all. Other than that I don't expect anything to change in the distant, let alone near future. None of you are losers no matter what age you are and if it's anyone round here who should be a loser it's me you should look at my CV: http://www.e-cvs.net/web/homepage.asp?email=mgathompson@aol.com
I've never had a real job and when I have it's always been agency work. I know through a friend, someone who's never worked and he's in his thirties as well as had kids just so he could get more money. Those guys that skitted me I described in an earlier post to do with what's on here could hardly write when I was on a course with them and one or two of them had kids. No doubt, they'll bring them up harder than what others on here could and I must say this is the nicest forum I've been on, amid the nastiness that's out there. Judge your successes by how you've helped others and the definition of loser shouldn't be judged by whether you've got laid, it's a problem. I agree with wergo that there should be some kind of support group but then I thought it'd be open to abuse online by people messing about. Testy, let us know how you get on or have got on for the sake of the others on here.

[Testy]

Well, things didn't work out like I had hoped, but I have a little more confidence at this point. I actually quit being a lurker on a personals site and joined up. At first I thought Wergo was being sarcastic when he said that most of them are scams.

All I ever get is solicitations from "girls" who are conveniently "out of the country" and living in Nigeria of all places. I'm sure there are some real people on these sites as well, but like everything else on the Internet you've got to approach it with a healthy dose of skepticism and caution.

So for now, I still have the curse, but I am hopeful that things might still be looking up...

[XCritic Editor]

Time for Part II.