I want to see male-male action in straight porn

[art]

I think it's time for straight porn movies to progress to the next stage and include erotic male-male action. It's totally unfair in my view for there to be female-female but no male-male. Heck, the men don't touch each other in straight porn, let alone have sex with each other.

For an industry that likes to portray itself as open-minded and progressive, the straight porn world still leaves a lot to be desired in this regard.

[ClemsonDevil]

And teh Gay award goes to... (drumroll)... ART!

the reason why it's not going to make it into straight porn is because porn in general is predominantly made for men over women. Men do not want to see gay porn, and doing so causes blindness. Even if the 2 hour movie is 95% straight dick-***** action, those 6 other minutes of man on man love would induce massive amounts of vomiting. Seeing MMF bisexual action is either going to be catagorized as being bisexual or gay. PERIOD!

[diacritic]

male-male action in straight porn

that phrase does not make sense.

[Tarantino]

Yeah, if guys were fucking each other, well...that's called gay porn, son.

[diacritic]

actually there's a whole genre out there, but you need to look at gay sections. go to gaydvdempire.com and you'll find some, like this:

http://www.gaydvdempire.com/Exec/v1_item.asp?userid=00000437829944&item_id=616163&tab=5&date=382458206828704

[art]

Perhaps there should be a homophobia award for those who are so offended by erotic male-male action as to induce vomiting.

Give me a break. It's 2004. Male-male is everywhere in the news and in film and TV. So why the heck can't the straight porn industry jump on board? I suspect it's because the straight porn industry is a lot more narrow-minded and conservative than it pretends to be.

And no, I don't want to watch gay porn. I want to see straight porn with men getting it on with men. Simple.

[dom56]

The only male-male action scene I seen in a straight video is Ron Jeremy beat the crap out of Jerry Butler in Raw Talent. :)

Yeah I think that was the same video where Jerry screw a cooked turkey. :lol:

[diacritic]

Originally posted by art
I want to see straight porn with men getting it on with men. Simple.

it's not simple. there is no such thing as man-on-man straight porn. what you are looking for is gay or bi-sexual porn, though I would agree that most porn studios that produce films for straight men avoid depicting contact between two men, unless it mean double penetration.

[BigPete]

It's not even worth arguing the stupidity of this thread from a completely technical standpoint.

[Bluebomber]

Originally posted by diacritic
male-male action in straight porn

that phrase does not make sense.

Agreed

[art]

By strict definition, then, straight porn should not include female-female sex. That's because female-female is homosexual, not straight.

An important point is that there is a double standard operating here: the straight porn double standard. It's high time in my view that we got rid of it.

[Giantrobo]

Originally posted by art
Perhaps there should be a homophobia award for those who are so offended by erotic male-male action as to induce vomiting.



Did you start this thread just so you could call someone "homophobe"?

Look, it's not so much homophobia as it is going against the tastes of the males present.

I like Plump girls and preggos, the guys around don't. I understand it's "personal taste" thing and not so much a phobia.

[Derrich]

It's like art is talking some strange alien language. Look, there is a simple rule that all men and the vast majority of women understand. Maybe you missed that day in school but even so someone should have told you.

As long as a woman is involved and there is no male interaction(high fives excluded), it's not gay.

Its a simple rule. watch how it works out.

One woman with a vibrator. Not gay
7 women pleasuring each other. Not gay
1 man and 1 woman. Not gay
12 men and 1 woman. Not Gay
2 men. Gay
1 Man. Gay

See? As soon as the woman disappears, it's Gay porn. Now if you want to watch gay porn, then by all mean, knock yourself out. But don't think you're watching anything else but a gay porn.

I really dont see how you're missing that.

D

[Max Bottomtime]

Originally posted by art
Perhaps there should be a homophobia award for those who are so offended by erotic male-male action as to induce vomiting.

On behalf of all the guys here at the adult forum, I accept the award.
:yack:

[Giantrobo]

Originally posted by Max Bottomtime
On behalf of all the guys here at the adult forum, I accept the award.


:lol:


Ok, maybe it is for some.

[Johnny Zhivago]

:hscratch:

Might as well grab a :beer: this should be an interesting read...

[art]

I know straight women who would like to watch men getting it on with men in porn. And these women don't necessarily want to hire a gay porn title. Like their husbands, these women are entitled to watch aesthetically-pleasing same-sex action in a straight porn title. And don't give me this nonsense about female-female action in straight porn not being homosexual. To suggest that it isn't homosexual is just straight-porn spin.

[Maxwell Smart]

I'd like to see more Men fuckin clouds in straight porn. That would be nice.

[Max Bottomtime]

I guess the "metrosexual" movement has infiltrated the porn industry. I can see it now; Where The Girls Aren't, volume 17.
:yack:

[King Nest]

art : Mr Ed, why can't I get a girlfriend?

Mr Ed : Because my boy you are gay. Now would you please pull out now, I have to take a dump.

[joeblow69]

You should check out Tina Tyler's Going Down (http://www.adultdvdtalk.com/reviews/read_review.dlt/sku=3472/tina-tyler%27s-going-down.htm). It's a straight movie that has one scene where 2 guys give each other handjobs while another girl watches and frigs herself.

[Derrich]

So you're saying it has a gay scene.

D

[costanza]

maybe art is a homophobe. he wants to see two guys getting it on in a porno, but is too afraid to be caught with a gay porn video.

[Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by art
Like their husbands, these women are entitled to watch aesthetically-pleasing same-sex action in a straight porn title.

:lol:

If you need help coming up with poster ideas for a march on Washington to demand recognition of this ENTITLEMENT, I'm sure the dvdtalkers here can help out.


An important point is that there is a double standard operating here: the straight porn double standard.

So your complaint is -- let me get this straight -- that pornography is not...axiomatically consistent enough for you?

[ClemsonDevil]

Originally posted by art
By strict definition, then, straight porn should not include female-female sex. That's because female-female is homosexual, not straight.

I suppose not. But the fact remains that most porn is for guys. And most guys say that male-male is gay, and woman-woman is awesome. And then there is you... who likes seeing a guy suck another guys dick or allow butt entry. That is not awesome... that is gay.

Originally posted by art
An important point is that there is a double standard operating here: the straight porn double standard. It's high time in my view that we got rid of it.

Laws are changed because of majority rule. What you are saying is that everything should change for you and a handful of others. There are a few videos that cater to you. And until more then .000001% (could be .00001%) of all "straight" male porn watchers agree with you, you WILL have to deal with this so called double standard.

Originally posted by King Nest art : Mr Ed, why can't I get a girlfriend?

Mr Ed : Because my boy you are gay. Now would you please pull out now, I have to take a dump.

Can't argue with that logic.

[twikoff]

Worst Idea Ever!

[chente]

Most porn is made for men, of which a very large percentage enjoy girl/girl. I've never personally met a woman who enjoys guy/guy action. I'm not saying they don't exist but I've never met any. If you want guy/guy, you'll likely have to rent gay porn.

I personally don't enjoy the double penetration stuff, especially two dicks in one hole stuff but am resigned to having to see it when waching mainstream porn. I also don't like Anal to Mouth but I can usually tell which titles has that in them.

[Demontooth]

I think you are flying solo on this one buddy

[mike45]

You will never see male-male action in straight porn.

Why?

Sales would head right for the cellar.

[Roto]

Originally posted by art
Perhaps there should be a homophobia award for those who are so offended by erotic male-male action as to induce vomiting.
Just for the record I know of plenty women who cringe at the thought of seeing two women together and it had nothing to do with being intolerant of homosexuals. It just isn't their thing and it grosses them out.

[PopcornTreeCt]

Originally posted by costanza
maybe art is a homophobe. he wants to see two guys getting it on in a porno, but is too afraid to be caught with a gay porn video.

I think we have a winner.

[art]

I'm a very open-minded person and can tune into any adult sex scene with a fair amount of heat. I can appreciate female-female, male-male and any combination thereof if it's done well.

As for others, it's my view that porn conservatives who defend the straight-porn status quo are the ones who should be in the dock on this. Put simply, there is no intellectual defense for a double standard that says female-female is great but that male-male is repulsive. And when a straight porn movie is marketed as a "couples movie", it's doubly aggravating because the assumption is that it's normal for the couple to watch female-female action but not male-male action.

The whole thing just reeks.

[ClemsonDevil]

Just admit you are bisexual and let this thread die.

[joltaddict]

Originally posted by Max Bottomtime
On behalf of all the guys here at the adult forum, I accept the award.
:yack:

The kicker with this post is that its coming from Max Bottomtime. If thats not a gay porn name I dont know what is. :lol:

[Max Bottomtime]

Originally posted by joltaddict
The kicker with this post is that its coming from Max Bottomtime. If thats not a gay porn name I dont know what is. :lol: Actually it's scuba related, but if I did porn I'd likely use the name. :D

[LurkerDan]

Originally posted by art
By strict definition, then, straight porn should not include female-female sex. That's because female-female is homosexual, not straight. Why did GuessWho register with a new account? :hscratch:

[TopHatCat64]

Originally posted by art
I'm a very open-minded person and can tune into any adult sex scene with a fair amount of heat. I can appreciate female-female, male-male and any combination thereof if it's done well.

As for others, it's my view that porn conservatives who defend the straight-porn status quo are the ones who should be in the dock on this. Put simply, there is no intellectual defense for a double standard that says female-female is great but that male-male is repulsive. And when a straight porn movie is marketed as a "couples movie", it's doubly aggravating because the assumption is that it's normal for the couple to watch female-female action but not male-male action.

The whole thing just reeks.

What exactly is so hard to understand about what's been said so far?

1. Straight porn is 99% made for men

2. Most straight men really don't want to see male-male action

Why turn off 99% percent of your market when there are so many other alternatives they can easily go to?

[DonnachaOne]

Originally posted by art
And no, I don't want to watch gay porn. I want to see straight porn with men getting it on with men. This is still oxymoronic.

What you describe IS homosexual porn. Women getting it on with women is homosexual porn. The parties involved may not be homosexual. But it is technically "gay porn". The difference is that women are much more beautiful than men and penises are kind of ugly. My straight female friends will agree with me there...

[joltaddict]

Originally posted by Max Bottomtime
Actually it's scuba related, but if I did porn I'd likely use the name. :D

:lol:
Methinks you dont know what a Bottom is in porn.

[art]

It's amazing how some straight men attempt to defend the straight-porn double standard by making rash generalizations and assumptions about the preferences of other straight men. I would bet London to a brick that a fair proportion of straight men wouldn't mind watching two men getting it on in a straight porn movie. The conservative straight porn industry fails to reflect this in its product.

Moreover, don't tell me I should go to some sexual ghetto such as the bi or gay porn genres to satisfy my desires. I want to see male-male action in straight porn, a non-negotiable position as far as I'm concerned.

[LurkerDan]

Originally posted by art
I would bet London to a brick that a fair proportion of straight men wouldn't mind watching two men getting it on in a straight porn movie. I am willing to bet that the percentage is less than 10%, and probably less than 1%.

[DonnachaOne]

Originally posted by art
It's amazing how some straight men attempt to defend the straight-porn double standard by making rash generalizations and assumptions about the preferences of other straight men. You are making rash generalizations throughout this thread, art.

[costanza]

Originally posted by LurkerDan
I am willing to bet that the percentage is less than 10%, and probably less than 1%.

no one has stood up and agreed with him here. so right now he's stuck at 0%.

[art]

I am making what I consider to be fair and balanced criticisms of the straight porn industry in relation to its conservative double standards. I would go so far as to say that the industry itself is more conservative regarding male-male action than is the general straight male population.

Also, consider this. Nowadays you can watch gay male characters in sitcoms and in movies but when it comes to the straight porn industry, even a bit of male-male touching is like putting a cross and garlic to Dracula.

[LurkerDan]

Originally posted by art
Also, consider this. Nowadays you can watch gay male characters in sitcoms and in movies but when it comes to the straight porn industry, even a bit of male-male touching is like putting a cross and garlic to Dracula. art, you aren't getting it. I can watch gay men on TV, I can hang out with gay men. But I do NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH THEM, NOR DO I WANT TO SEE THEM HAVING SEX.

It is utterly irrelevant to talk about what's on mainstream TV. The fact that a straight man can enjoy Queer Eye has absolutely nothing to do with what he wants to see in his porn. I don't see why that is so hard for you to understand...

[DonnachaOne]

Tell you what, art. Go make a "straight" porn with guy-on-guy sex, then get back to us when you're a rip-roaring success with straight pornwatchers. Then, as a collctive, we'll pat you on the back and say you were right. Deal? Good.

[ClemsonDevil]

Originally posted by art
It's amazing how some straight men attempt to defend the straight-porn double standard by making rash generalizations and assumptions about the preferences of other straight men.

And yet in the next quote of yours YOU make an assumption that a "fair" amount of guys want to see some dick on dick action. WRONG!

Originally posted by art
I would bet London to a brick that a fair proportion of straight men wouldn't mind watching two men getting it on in a straight porn movie. The conservative straight porn industry fails to reflect this in its product.

First of all, the porn industry has been called many things... but conservative, I do believe, has never been one of them. Secondly, you would be wrong on that bet, and I'm so confindent that I'll raise you Paris... Supply and demand. There is no demand for male-male scenes so therefore there is little to no supply.

Originally posted by art
Moreover, don't tell me I should go to some sexual ghetto such as the bi or gay porn genres to satisfy my desires. I want to see male-male action in straight porn, a non-negotiable position as far as I'm concerned.

We are not telling you anything like that. We just assumed that you were smart enough to know better. Think about it. Gay porn in the straight section...
Seriously man, I don't go to Hardees and order a Big Mac, I don't go to a Blockbuster and expect to find a sale on beds. For that reason don't go into a GAP and bitch at the sales people when you cannot buy an Old Navy shirt from them. There may be a demand for Old Navy but you are forced to go TO an Old Navy for those products. In other words... If you want male-male porn start looking in the areas other then straight porn.

on a side note I would like to suggest some therapy. cause I don't care what your sexual preference is, or if you have a strong fetish for gay male sex... but you are being extremely dense in your posting today.

[art]

I don't give a brass razoo about your personal preference. What I'm talking about is a straight porn industry that is founded on the double standard. Go ahead and defend the double standard if you wish - that's not my stock in trade.

By the way, here's a fact. Out of all the thousands of straight porn movies made this year, you've got basically nothing with male-male action in it. If homophobia isn't at the root of all this then I'll eat my hat.

[DonnachaOne]

"brass razoo"?

"London to a brick"?

"I'll eat my hat"?

Why art, your posting style is just the cat's pyjamas!

[LurkerDan]

I give up, and now think I need to pull this hook out of my mouth... :lol:

[ClemsonDevil]

Originally posted by art
I am making what I consider to be fair and balanced criticisms of the straight porn industry in relation to its conservative double standards. I would go so far as to say that the industry itself is more conservative regarding male-male action than is the general straight male population.

Also, consider this. Nowadays you can watch gay male characters in sitcoms and in movies but when it comes to the straight porn industry, even a bit of male-male touching is like putting a cross and garlic to Dracula.

1) straight males buy more porn then females and gays.
2) i don't watch queer eye but Will and Grace is funny. However I do not watch Will and Grace to get a boner. This is because W&G does not turn me on... just like a dick in another guys ass does not turn me on.

BUT... if after the gay sex, if the guys put on some clothes and do a comedy routine on tv and they are funny... i'll watch them then.

[joltaddict]

Originally posted by ClemsonDevil
Will and Grace is funny.

You just made the list buddy.

[DonnachaOne]

Originally posted by joltaddict
You just made the list buddy. :lol:

[art]

What I want to see is your straight male types having erotic interactions with each other in a straight porn movie. Is that too much to ask? Heavens, if you recoil from that then you well and truly lack a rounded view of human sexuality. I would say you're the conservative and I'm the progessive.

[PopcornTreeCt]

Straight dudes screwing other straight dudes in a straight porn movie?

You should probably talk with Stephen Hawkings. He knows a lot about alternate universes.

[mike45]

This whole thread doesn't make any sense.

[ClemsonDevil]

Well then... some people get their sexual kicks from watching beastiality, torture, rape, and child pornography. tell you what... why don't you buy a few of those to really get a more rounded view of human sexuality. I'd hate for you to be conservative like the rest of us.

[MJKTool]

I vote this as the weirdest thread of the year so far!!

Seriously wtf? :lol:

[art]

I am not saying that straight male porn fans should have to watch male-male erotica in a straight porn movie. Ultimately it's your choice what you wish to see and hear. What I'm saying is that the straight porn industry needs to be more accommodating or fairer in its depiction of adult sexuality. At the moment you're only getting male-female and female-female, an imbalance that doesn't reflect what happens out there in society.

I feel sorry for any straight man (or woman) who starts to believe in this biased straight-porn ethic.

[PopcornTreeCt]

But there is male-on-male porn. The only thing separating it from straight porn is a label. If girl-on-girl wasn't a great seller it would be listed under gay as well.

[Mano]

This thread gets a "wow" from me.

[Mano]

Originally posted by art
I am not saying that straight male porn fans should have to watch male-male erotica in a straight porn movie.

So, basically, you are invalidating everything you have said thus far?

[Roto]

Originally posted by art
It's amazing how some straight men attempt to defend the straight-porn double standard by making rash generalizations and assumptions about the preferences of other straight men. I would bet London to a brick that a fair proportion of straight men wouldn't mind watching two men getting it on in a straight porn movie. The conservative straight porn industry fails to reflect this in its product.

Moreover, don't tell me I should go to some sexual ghetto such as the bi or gay porn genres to satisfy my desires. I want to see male-male action in straight porn, a non-negotiable position as far as I'm concerned.
-screwy- You are confused. Replace every time you say "straight porn" with "porn for straight men"
Straight men want to see women, and some straight men don't like to see any men in the scene at all. I really don't know where you get off calling bi and gay porn the sexual ghetto when that is what you are saying you want to see! There is porn out there for everything, and it's seperated into sections for a reason.

Here's a book for you. Hopefully it will help
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0767913981.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[scottall]

That's the first thing I thought about when I saw the title.

I can't imagine watching some porn with a woman and having some MM action start up. That would kill the mood pretty quick. If I am by myself and some MM action starts up, then I might have to finish myself off, but I wouldn't like it. ;)

[ENDContra]

Originally posted by Giantrobo
I like Plump girls and preggos

Thats sick dude, you like girls with spaghetti sauce on them?! ;)

Originally posted by Derrich
One woman with a vibrator. Not gay
7 women pleasuring each other. Not gay
1 man and 1 woman. Not gay
12 men and 1 woman. Not Gay
2 men. Gay
1 Man. Gay

See? As soon as the woman disappears, it's Gay porn. Now if you want to watch gay porn, then by all mean, knock yourself out. But don't think you're watching anything else but a gay porn.


Ok so based on what you said, 2 men and a woman where the 2 guys go down on each other after taking care of her would not be gay porn.

Originally posted by art
Put simply, there is no intellectual defense for a double standard that says female-female is great but that male-male is repulsive.

Sorry guys...but hes right.
And honestly, I dont know why everyone is so confused about the whole "straight guys having sex". I interpret it as guys that do both girls and guys, yet act like your normal straight guy (ie, not flamers). I also think the difference in opinion between art and the rest of you is because I get the impression that art simply watches porn, whereas most of you use it to get off...so its not surprising that you dont want guy-guy action in your "straight" porn, but not being able to realize that there is a double-standard is just ignorance. In our society today, being a bi girl is great and practically celebrated, yet being a bi guy is something to keep secret...an obvious double standard.

And for the record, Im a straight guy...but Im not so offended and insecure that I freak out if I see porn with guy-guy action in it

[Derrich]

EndContra,

You forgot the rule about the men not having any interaction with each other(except for the high five). 2 men and a woman is not gay porn but as soon as the men start to do anything with each other then it's gay.

Also, I don't believe for a second that art is serious. He pulled us all in hook line and sinker, but kudos to him for making it drag on for 3 pages.

D

[Buttmunker]

Originally posted by ENDContra
I also think the difference in opinion between art and the rest of you is because I get the impression that art simply watches porn, whereas most of you use it to get off...

That's an odd one - I can't imagine anyone watching porno without the intent to "get off." To just sit there and watch it for the sake of watching it - from beginning to end - is something... I never considered. For me, after "getting off," that porno is immediately ejected from the player and quickly hidden away.

Originally posted by ClemsonDevil
Well then... some people get their sexual kicks from watching beastiality, torture, rape, and child pornography. tell you what... why don't you buy a few of those to really get a more rounded view of human sexuality. I'd hate for you to be conservative like the rest of us.

Society is a funny thing, when you stop to consider it for a second. If we really were "well rounded," which we most certainly AREN'T, male-on-male, female-on-female, male-on-females, females-with-strap-ons-with men, orgies, beastiality, torture, rape, children, urine, bukakke, and dare I say, rape-snuff, would all be included on every single Porn Video. It would be the norm, because it includes everything that caters to the deranged human brain. But, since we all don't have the same brain, they've categorized. Makes sense because I'd vomit if I saw a woman taking a dump in some guy's mouth.

On a side note, I do wonder why women never seem genuine in their pleasures on porn. They are either too excited (fake), or they look like they are in pain. I rarely ever see a woman getting sensually into her man like in real life - and this may be due to the nature of the porn industry and its overall viewers: men just want to see women fucked in crazy, uncomfortable positions that would give any one of us an agonizing charley-horse.

[bill_n_opus]

Originally posted by Derrich

Also, I don't believe for a second that art is serious. He pulled us all in hook line and sinker, but kudos to him for making it drag on for 3 pages.

D

Yah, I think he's trolling.

Worked too judging by the thread count.

Way to go art! You know how to push people's buttons.

[Bandoman]

I knew the lack of male-male interaction in straight porn was a conservative conspiracy!

[art]

I have no problems with people's personal preferences in porn. What I'm railing against is the straight porn industry and its hypocrisy and double standards. It promotes the notion that female-female sex is normal and desirable but not the male-male stuff. This is a clear breach of the notion that it is an enlightened industry. If it wants to be treated as such then drop the double standard.

As I said before, I've taken a progressive position on this issue, one that has obviously put some noses out of joint.

[Buttmunker]

The double standard is not just associated with the porn industry - regular folks like us carry this double standard around, too - particularly women, who feel it is not gay to suck another girl's nippy (or muff), while they feel it is gay if a man sucks on another man's nippy (or his longfellow).

Sex is a stigma that will take another 200 years to level to a point where sex is just sex, without boundaries (sans anything disgusting).

[TheMadMonk]

Originally posted by art
What I'm railing against is the straight porn industry and its hypocrisy and double standards. It promotes the notion that female-female sex is normal and desirable but not the male-male stuff.


I really think you are overestimating the amount that the porn industry is trying to "promote certain notions" They are a business, and are promoting what sells.

1. Most straight men don't mind "girl on girl" scenes (personally, I usually find them to be quite boring, in most cases).

2. Most straight men don't want "guy on guy" action in their porn.

3. Straight men buy mostly "straight" porn. Therefore, you see girl/girl scenes, but not guy/guy scenes in "straight" porn.

4. Profit for the porn industry.

[b]This is a clear breach of the notion that it is an enlightened industry. If it wants to be treated as such then drop the double standard.

So, in order to be considered enlightened (which, I don't really think they are, nor care about being percieved as), straight porn has to include acts that will be a turn-off for their majority target audience. Yeah, thats a brilliant business plan.

[LurkerDan]

Originally posted by ENDContra
Sorry guys...but hes right.
And honestly, I dont know why everyone is so confused about the whole "straight guys having sex". I interpret it as guys that do both girls and guys, yet act like your normal straight guy (ie, not flamers). Um, then it isn't "straight guys having sex". It's "bi-sexual guys having sex". Difference.

[matome]

Originally posted by art

By the way, here's a fact. Out of all the thousands of straight porn movies made this year, you've got basically nothing with male-male action in it.

Thank God, because I would be pissed. I didn't pick up a title from the Bi section. Actually I think we should just eliminate straight porn and make everything tranny sex, so everyone could be pleased all the time.

[RKillgore]

Originally posted by art
I have no problems with people's personal preferences in porn. What I'm railing against is the straight porn industry and its hypocrisy and double standards. It promotes the notion that female-female sex is normal and desirable but not the male-male stuff. This is a clear breach of the notion that it is an enlightened industry. If it wants to be treated as such then drop the double standard.

As I said before, I've taken a progressive position on this issue, one that has obviously put some noses out of joint.
That may be a fundamental problem with your argument if you're looking to pornography as a normal depiction of sexuality. I delivered pizzas for a year and never once was I met at the door by a sexy woman in lingerie, much less pulled inside to have sex with her and her scantily clad girlfriend.

Plain and simple, pornography is voyeurism without the risk. We're observers, not participants. I'm fascinated by group sex, but I've never been in that situation and seriously doubt that I ever could be, realistically. Just the same, I can watch male bisexual or gay encounters and not place myself in that scenario, but feel the excitement of secretly witnessing the "private" encounter.

So, I can sympathize with art's suggestion that there is a greater market for male-male sexual encounters within a movie that also includes sex with females than the market originally let on. The increased availability of male bisexual porn supports that. Unfortunately, art regulates that as a "ghetto", not willing to admit that those videos are precisely what he's looking for. The porn industry knows that they have to label those type videos as such, because they know that if some men get pornography that happens to include male-male encounters, it makes them think that the mere viewing of gay sex makes you gay and would send them scurrying off to post vomiting emoticons about the horrible experience they had.

[Bushdog]

Originally posted by art
By strict definition, then, straight porn should not include female-female sex. That's because female-female is homosexual, not straight.

An important point is that there is a double standard operating here: the straight porn double standard. It's high time in my view that we got rid of it. No double standard. As I suspect has been said ad naseum, it is porn for a straight male audience. Guy-on-guy action would get in the way of offering that. You know, god bless people who want to see gay sex, but that's gay porn, no?

[Bushdog]

Originally posted by art
I have no problems with people's personal preferences in porn. What I'm railing against is the straight porn industry and its hypocrisy and double standards. It promotes the notion that female-female sex is normal and desirable but not the male-male stuff. This is a clear breach of the notion that it is an enlightened industry. If it wants to be treated as such then drop the double standard.

As I said before, I've taken a progressive position on this issue, one that has obviously put some noses out of joint. So are you suggesting that the porn industry should stop making movies that maximizes the money they make? The specific issue is that heterosexual males are paying to see the girl-on-girl stuff and that's that. The industry wants to make money. If you're annoyed that the porn industry isn't upholding some higher ideals, I really have to laugh.

[ilmmtaitw1]

I think Art brings up a lot of interesting topics that perhaps he just didn't know how to get across. I see that he may be having trouble because of all the people attacking his every word.

I highly doubt that Art actually wants to see male-male action. If he really wanted to see that, he would rent a gay porn video, right?

The think that one of the points that Art was trying to get across to everyone, is that pornographic movies are simply not labeled properly, and in order to explain that, we have to go back to the basics, because I think that many people have forgotten:

Homosexual of course means (same sex).

For two men to be with eachother, it's GAY.

For two women to be with eachother, it's LESBIAN.

Both scenarios however, still equal HOMOSEXUAL activity. And I think a lot of people have forgotten that.

Just because most men like to see girl/girl action, does not automatically make it "straight." Sure, the straight male is aroused by seeing two women going at it, but it doesn't mean that he's actually watching straight porn. He's watching LESBIAN porn.

And I really think that Art was trying to get that point across. I see that he's upset that studios keep including lesbian porn inside of a straight porn video, and still calling it "straight porn" when in actuality, it's not straight porn at all.

I think that there are two ways in order for Art to be happy:

(1) Take away the girl/girl action sequences so that a straight porn video can truly be "straight porn."

(2) If you're going to include "lesbian" porn scenes inside of a straight porn video, then you may as well include gay porn scenes in the same video as well, after all, even girl/girl stuff is homosexual.

Right now, it seems that Art is upset that so many people are still calling lesbian acts, "straight" when it's not. He only mentioned male/male acts because he wants straight porn to be "equal" to everyone, both male and female - NOT because he actually wants to see two men getting it on with eachother.

[Bushdog]

Are many people in this thread denying that girl-on-girl is lesbian in nature?

Everyone here agrees, I believe.

[Brain Stew]

It seems that according to art, straight men are homophobes if they don't want to switch two dudes having sex in a porn movie.

This is the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard. You are obviously a sociology professor, because I can remember arguing with him that if two men have sex, they are gay.

Face it, if you derive pleasure from watching two people who are the same sex as you have sex, you are gay or at least bisexual. You are definitely not straight. I am straight and can honestly say that the only enjoyment I would get out of a male-male porn scene would be enjoyment of the production values. And considering it's porn, that would be low.

[MJKTool]

Originally posted by ilmmtaitw1
I highly doubt that Art actually wants to see male-male action.

He says he wants to see male-male action right in the thread title for crying out loud!

[ilmmtaitw1]

Quote:

"Are many people in this thread denying that girl-on-girl is lesbian in nature? Everyone here agrees, I believe."

Certainly not Derrich. This is his quote:

"One woman with a vibrator. Not gay"
"7 women pleasuring each other. Not gay"

He clearly seems to be misguided about what is gay and what isn't. 7 Women all going at is, is DEFINITELY gay/lesbian/whatever you want to call it...it's definitely not straight.

[Brain Stew]

Originally posted by MJKTool
He says he wants to see male-male action right in the thread title for crying out loud!

Haven' t you learned anything from this thread? Contradictions don't prove anything -ohbfrank-.

art probably doesn't want to see a male-male porn scene, just masturbate to one.

[Brain Stew]

Originally posted by ilmmtaitw1
Quote:

"Are many people in this thread denying that girl-on-girl is lesbian in nature? Everyone here agrees, I believe."

Certainly not Derrich. This is his quote:

"One woman with a vibrator. Not gay"
"7 women pleasuring each other. Not gay"

He clearly seems to be misguided about what is gay and what isn't. 7 Women all going at is, is DEFINITELY gay/lesbian/whatever you want to call it...it's definitely not straight.

I agree completely. Just as 7 men going at it together would be gay.

But straight male porn consumers get turned on by lesbians, but not homosexual men.

[ilmmtaitw1]

Originally posted by MJKTool
He says he wants to see male-male action right in the thread title for crying out loud!

Only for EQUALITY. Not because he wants to get off on it. As I said before, if he really wanted to see men having sex with other men, he would rent a gay porn video, and not have to post in this forum.

[Brain Stew]

Originally posted by ilmmtaitw1
Only for EQUALITY. Not because he wants to get off on it. As I said before, if he really wanted to see men having sex with other men, he would rent a gay porn video, and not have to post in this forum.

That is almost as ridiculous as something art would say. It's obvious art has latent homosexual feelings and is uncomfortable putting a label on a pleasure he obtains watching two men go at it, so allow me to:

IT'S NOT STRAIGHT!

To say that art is almost some sort of Rosa Parks or Martin Luther King for male on male penetration scenes is the funniest thing I've heard all day.

[Bandoman]

I think all porn videos should have super fat chicks. You know, for equality.

[Brain Stew]

Originally posted by BandoClassic!
I think all porn videos should have super fat chicks. You know, for equality.

That took courage. You are a trailblazer.

[MJKTool]

Originally posted by Brain Stew

To say that art is almost some sort of Rosa Parks or Martin Luther King for male on male penetration scenes is the funniest thing I've heard all day.

All day? You mean you have heard something funnier this week?

:lol:

[ilmmtaitw1]

Well let's just see what Art has to say about all of this. If in fact, he actually DOES want to see male/male action then he of course is indeed gay or even bi-sexual and has not admitted it to himself or to this group, and my efforts here are entirely wasted. But it is my understanding that he is not interested in seeing this at all, but is upset/confused why studios keep releasing these videos with lesbian scenes in them, and still have the never to call it "Straight Porn."

[Roto]

This should clear it up for you ilmmtaitw1
Originally posted by art

And no, I don't want to watch gay porn. I want to see straight porn with men getting it on with men. Simple.
Originally posted by art

Moreover, don't tell me I should go to some sexual ghetto such as the bi or gay porn genres to satisfy my desires. I want to see male-male action in straight porn, a non-negotiable position as far as I'm concerned.
Originally posted by art
What I want to see is your straight male types having erotic interactions with each other in a straight porn movie. Is that too much to ask? Heavens, if you recoil from that then you well and truly lack a rounded view of human sexuality. I would say you're the conservative and I'm the progessive.
:whofart: or maybe it clouds it up. I still can't get over that second one. If that isn't life on the down low, I don't know what is rotfl

[ilmmtaitw1]

I stand corrected! Thanks Roto, for clearing this issue up. It should be clear to everyone here, (myself included) that Art is in fact Bi-Sexual or completely Gay, and I was simply looking too far into his postings to find other answers which simply were not correct.

[joeblow69]

Originally posted by art
Moreover, don't tell me I should go to some sexual ghetto such as the bi or gay porn genres to satisfy my desires.
I was with you art, right up until this point. I think this explains a lot about art right here. Gay porn is a sexual ghetto? Art clearly has some self loathing issues he needs to deal with. He desperately wants to see man on man action, but is too afriad of the stigma attached to gay porn. So instead, he tries to drag gay sex into the "normal" (in his mind) world of straight porn. That way, he'd be able to view his gay sex, and still be "normal".

Or not... hell, I dropped out of psychology, so what do I know?

[Max Bottomtime]

I'm getting the Hell outta here before I catch teh gay! :D

[RoyalTea]

rotfl at the title change.

oh, wait. -eek-

[Mr. M]

Originally posted by RoyalTea
rotfl at the title change.

oh, wait. -eek-

rotfl

You go gentrify that ghetto, art!

[Tarantino]

art likes balls.

[art]

My sexuality is quite immaterial in all this, so stop looking for an escape hatch to explain away my previous posts.

The point is the straight porn industry is a conservative institution that portrays human sexuality in an unbalanced way. It basically says that male-female and female-female sex is acceptable and desirable but that male-male is non-existent or regrettable. I have no time for this twisted vision and neither should fair-thinking folk. Moreover, heterosexual couples are taught to accept the double standard through devious marketing ploys such as the use of terms like "couple's movies" by the straight porn industry. Couples movies, my foot.

To put it in a nutshell, I won't be satisfied until male-male love scenes are regularly included in straight porn movies. And if that grates, so be it.

[Bandoman]

rotfl

art, you are either a brilliant comedian or just a little off-kilter. ;) Anyway, thanks for the new sig. :up:

[waporvare]

Originally posted by art
My sexuality is quite immaterial in all this, so stop looking for an escape hatch to explain away my previous posts.

The point is the straight porn industry is a conservative institution that portrays human sexuality in an unbalanced way. It basically says that male-female and female-female sex is acceptable and desirable but that male-male is non-existent or regrettable. I have no time for this twisted vision and neither should fair-thinking folk. Moreover, heterosexual couples are taught to accept the double standard through devious marketing ploys such as the use of terms like "couple's movies" by the straight porn industry. Couples movies, my foot.

To put it in a nutshell, I won't be satisfied until male-male love scenes are regularly included in straight porn movies. And if that grates, so be it.

Here's the bottom line, there's one thing all women and men have in common, they all have had contact with vagina and tits at birth. So it's more natural for a woman to be with a woman, whereas there is never a point biologically speaking that a man at birth was in contact with another mans privates.

[costanza]

i was kind of hoping this one had run it's course, although i'm not helping matters

[joltaddict]

Originally posted by waporvare
Here's the bottom line, there's one thing all women and men have in common, they all have had contact with vagina and tits at birth. So it's more natural for a woman to be with a woman, whereas there is never a point biologically speaking that a man at birth was in contact with another mans privates.


*DISCLAIMER*
PLEASE GOD DONT THINK IM DEFENDING ARTS POSITION

That said, thats the most retarded justification for lesbianism Ive ever heard.

*DISCLAIMER PART TWO*
THIS POST IN NO WAY DISCOURAGES LESBIANISM

[waporvare]

Like I was serious. :lol:

[joltaddict]

Oh.
Thank god. :lol:

[Crocker Jarmen]

Originally posted by waporvare
Like I was serious. :lol:

Even if you were truely were being facetious, that fact had never occured to me before and I think it is an interesting point.

[Aphex Twin]

Well if this ever happened, whoever produced the film would go out of business. They would totally alienate their customer base. People who purchase their films simply would not be into male-male sex. A straight guy would be trying to masturbate and when he gets to the point of orgasm, the male-male scene comes on...it would totally send him into sexual resentment. Why would any porn company want to put in a guy-on-guy action knowing full well the economic consequences of such an unwise decision? It's just something that totally drives away ~99% of their target market.

[Saxofonix]

Originally posted by Aphex Twin
Why would any porn company want to put in a guy-on-guy action knowing full well the economic consequences of such an unwise decision?

Because Art wants some political correctness in his porn. :)

[Bushdog]

Originally posted by Crocker Jarmen
Even if you were truely were being facetious, that fact had never occured to me before and I think it is an interesting point. *laughs and points*

[ClemsonDevil]

Originally posted by Aphex Twin
Well if this ever happened, whoever produced the film would go out of business. They would totally alienate their customer base. People who purchase their films simply would not be into male-male sex.

Actually... the people who would purchase their movies would be in a target customer base. The movies would be labeled as MMF bi movies so it would not be a shock to the casual viewer. However this comes back to the labeling, since a video such as that COULDN'T be in the straight section. As this 'art' has shown, there is a market for MMF bi sex. The only thing is, as this thread has shown, is that the market is small and since it does alienate MOST viewers, it is forced to be a separate shelf.

[Calvin Calhoun]

You don't have to be gay to like to see men get it on and girls. Just Like Animals.

[Max Bottomtime]

Originally posted by Calvin Calhoun
You don't have to be gay to like to see men get it on and girls. Just Like Animals. Animals like to see men get it on? That's totally gay. That's Liberace gay.

[NoDAK]

What the hell? Speaking of MMF, when I loaded this last page all my the ads at the top were:
http://www.dvdtalk.com/covers/de617438.jpghttp://www.dvdtalk.com/covers/de617438.jpg http://www.dvdtalk.com/covers/de617438.jpg http://www.dvdtalk.com/covers/de617438.jpg
Weird coincidence. It's like a ghey slots machine.. and I definitely don't want that jackpot.

Although the logic -- or lack thereof -- made my head hurt a couple of times,this thread was the highlight of my afternoon. thanks, art.

[art]

The notion that male-male interactions in a straight porn movie might turn off a certain fan base may be correct. In any case, I certainly do not think it will be the exaggerated 99% that some suggest. Amazing how some posters come up with figures that have no basis in scientific fact.

Look, basically what I want to see is straight porn movies as they are made now but with a bit of male-male in it. It doesn't have to take up the whole movie, for Pete's sake. And yes, some people do watch porn without their hand on their cock, and with a totally aesthetic perspective. It riles me that female-female (which I'm not against) is made out to be sensational but that male-male is unacceptable as things now stand in straight porn.

Double standards only last as long as there's excuses for them. And I truly believe the excuses have run out.

[jaeufraser]

art...no offense...but your argument here is so laughable I can't help but think you're joking. There is no double standard. It's called supply and demand. Simple as that.

There is a demand for male-female and female female sex, that many heterosexual consumers buy. Female female sex is called straight porn not because it's a heterosexual act, but because predominantly straight men buy it.

Now, what you need to understand is that what you're asking for, will never happen. In fact, it's impossible. Why? Because what you're asking for ALREADY EXISTS! It's called bisexual porn. And if people wanted to see it, there would be lots more of it. But, apparently not, so there's far less of it.

Or is your argument that since you want to see it, every video should have it? Dude, seriously ,screw your head on. If nobody wants to see it, and nobody is going to buy it, why, WHY would anyone make it? To avoid some inane nonexistent double standard?

This thread is too funny cause this stance is just so indefensible. You're asking for something that already exists. Go buy some bisexual porn cause it's exactly what you want it to be. There's a girl, and two boys who play with each other also. There's a reason it's called gay or bisexual porn...because in general, you have to have at least the most latent of those sexual feelings to enjoy that type of porn. Straight people do not enjoy sex of people of their same gender. Simple as that.

Art, what you're basicaly saying is that there's a double standard because porn companies don't put male on male scenes in films where the consumer doesn't want to see them. It's a very simple question of business why, and if you can't understand that I would recommend therapy.

[Bandoman]

Well said, jauefraser, but I think you're wasting your time.

[KDforever]

Originally posted by BandoClassic!
I knew the lack of male-male interaction in straight porn was a conservative conspiracy!

rotfl

I wasn't going to post on this thread but your comment made me spit my diet coke all over my keyboard so there you are.

And just for the record, I do not want to see two dudes doing anything with each other in a porn movie other than giving each other a high five. I finally had to stop watching Oz because I could not stand to watch two guys kissing! :yack:

But I do like watching girls kiss, that's very sexy. :eyebrow:

[boredsilly]

Seriously Art, thanks for this thread. Not in the feeding mood, so just thanks.


I wasn't going to post on this thread but your comment made me spit my diet coke all over my keyboard so there you are.

And just for the record, I do not want to see two dudes doing anything with each other in a porn movie other than giving each other a high five. I finally had to stop watching Oz because I could not stand to watch two guys kissing!

But I do like watching girls kiss, that's very sexy


See I don't have a problem with Oz because I never watched that to get off. It was there for dramatics and that was fine. When I watch a porno, with my hand on my rocket and one thing on my mind, thats when I don't need to see the ass play. Hell I don't even like the extended shots of dudes faces in porn. Thats why I like those "My Plaything" dvds. The dude is nothing more than a prop with all the focus on the girl.

[art]

As I've previously said, I don't want to go to some sexual ghetto called bi porn to watch male-male interaction. I want it to be right there in straight porn along with other homosexual activity that already exists there (i.e. female-female). And I'm not necessarily wanting the male-male interaction to be part of a MMF threesome. There might be two ladies and two guys going at it hell for leather in any possible combination in the one scene. Or there might be four ladies and two guys.... Some straight guys might be offended but, heck, no-one's demanding you watch the scene or buy the movie.

And, please, stop making generalizations about what the consumer wants or doesn't want to see. With respect, this all sounds like excuse-making on the part of straights who adhere avidly to the straight porn double standard.

[Brain Stew]

Alright art, I've had enough of this bullshit! Understand two things.

1)Pornography is made for the express purpose of sexual gratication, usually via masturbation. "Couples" titles are out there, but hardcore videos are in the majority, obviously.
2) You are gay, or at the very least not straight.

You say that you want to see male gay activitiy along with female gay activity. Understand this son, if I am male, watching two girls have sex (usually simulated :rolleyes: ) it's not gay for me. I am not a woman, so everything is ok. If I watching two men having sex and pleasure myself, it's gay. I'm male, they're male. Period.

The fact is, I don't want to see two guys having sex. Most of my friends who are straight and watch porn say the same thing. I vote with my dollars on the subject of male on male interaction in straight porn. They don't put it in and I give them money. If you are upset refuse to buy titles until they do. If they start putting male on male in straight porn, they might as well start putting plant on plant. Because it's gonna do about just as much for me sexually.

[Birrman54]

I'm confused what art means by "sexual ghetto".

could somoene enlighten me?

birrman54

[Bushdog]

Originally posted by art
As I've previously said, I don't want to go to some sexual ghetto called bi porn to watch male-male interaction. Good luck to you in making peace with yourself and eventually coming out of the closet.

[art]

Brain Stew,

I don't give a brass razoo about your personal preferences. If you recoil from the notion of male-male interaction, then don't watch the scene or buy the movie. Simple. No-one is saying you have to ogle something that doesn't make you feel comfortable or happy.

By *sexual ghetto*, I mean a nice little safe place reserved for those who might offend the straight porn sensibility. When the straight porn industry says to fans of male-male interaction that they must go to the bi or gay porn genres to watch male-male, it's like saying to someone: "go to your room so you can't be seen or heard".

[Brain Stew]

What the hell is a brass razoo :confused:?

Like it or not, I represent the majority of straight (non-fetish) porn customers.

What you are asking for in porn is tantamount to requesting 40 year old women on a [i]Barely Legal[/b] video.

There is no gentrification going on with gay and bi videos. I am fairly certain that gay porn viewers don't want to watch straight porn. Of course, you are the exception.

[KDforever]

KittyDreamer's husband here...

Originally posted by Birrman54
I'm confused what art means by "sexual ghetto".

could somoene enlighten me?


That's what us sane people call "sections". As in, "absolutely sir, that's three isles down on your left in the (S&M, classic, lesbian, interracial, etc.) "section".

Apparently art wants to hang with all of us in the straight "section" of the store because the guys who hang in the gay or bi "sections" are scary. He's enjoys watching guys get it on; he just doesn't want anyone to make him his bitch while he's getting a video for the evening.

Now what I'd like to see is an all white interracial video. But that'll never happen in this overly PC society. But I can still dream...

[art]

Brain Stew,

Whether or not you represent the majority of current porn consumers is beside the point. My complaint has never been with the fans. Fans are entitled to see and hear whatever it is they wish to see and hear. I simply want the straight porn industry to become more egalitarian in the way it depicts human sexuality.

Consider also that there has recently been much talk about this industry craving respectability and mainstream acceptance. I don't see why it should gain this acceptance when it promotes the notion that f/f is great but that m/m is awful or non-existent. There is no way in the world I'm going to sit back and let that go unchallenged.

[Nick Danger]

:lol:

Art is the best new member since sararekuforever. <3 <3 <3

[Max Bottomtime]

I can see it now. Late night infomercials on Bravo for Guys Gone Wild videos. :D

[costanza]

i would be willing to sign a petition to stop having girl on girl scenes in straight porn. but there is no way in the world that there is ever going to be some guy on guy action in a straight porno movie.

[joltaddict]

Originally posted by Kittydreamer
Now what I'd like to see is an all white interracial video. But that'll never happen in this overly PC society. But I can still dream...

What?

[KDforever]

Originally posted by joltaddict
What?

It makes as much sense as male-male action in a straight porn. -screwy-

[LurkerDan]

Originally posted by Bushdog
Good luck to you in making peace with yourself and eventually coming out of the closet. you forgot the "rotfl" because the statement you quoted sure was funny.Originally posted by Kittydreamer
Now what I'd like to see is an all white interracial video. But that'll never happen in this overly PC society. But I can still dream... Those bastards! :lol:

[LurkerDan]

Originally posted by joltaddict
What? You're not the sharpest tool in the shed, are ya? :p

[JsphOfArimethia]

Ok, first off, this thread is hilarious. It's like watching a car crash derby.

Second, I swore I wasn't gonna bite the cheese and feed the derby, but then this made me laugh too hard:
Originally posted by art
By *sexual ghetto*, I mean a nice little safe place reserved for those who might offend the straight porn sensibility.

In the history of the world I don't think these two things have ever happened:
1. Male-Male action that wasn't gay.
2. "Ghetto" being a reference to "a nice little safe place."

rotfl

[SlartyBart]

I think Art totally has a point. It's like when I'm at the store, and I see some vanilla ice cream. I always think to myself "Boy, I sure like plain vanilla ice cream, but why can't I get it with chocolate flavor, and brown rather than white colored? And some chocolate chunks would be cool too!"

I'm really not interested in chocolate ice cream, but I could really go for some chocolate flavored vanilla ice cream. My friends ask me sometimes why I don't just get some neopolitan ice cream, but they can't seem to understand that I don't swing that way. I just want some chocolate flavoured plain vanilla ice cream. Really, how hard is that to understand?

Some evenings, when I'm sitting on the porch staring up at the stars, I can only come to the conclusion that they don't sell chocolate vanilla because of the ice cream industry's bias against chocolate. Or maybe it's just the prejudice of the vanilla ice cream buyers. I really feel for Art. Dude, I understand your pain.

[FinkPish]

Art, you seem to fail to grasp the fact that this double-standard isn't being created by the porn industry, it is present in the majority tastes of the consumers. I wouldn't even call this a double-standard by any stretch, it is merely personal preference, and there is obviously a majority presence that accepts it. This isn't a conspiracy created by the porn industry to crush male-male sex in "straight" porn, it is a matter of taste and preference by the consumer.

If there were a market for male-male action in straight films as much as there is female-female action, then it would exist. As it is, there is very little or no market for it, so it doesn't exist. To ask everyone to shift their personal sexual preferences because you think they are somehow close-minded and conservative is ridiculous. It is equivalent to asking a gay man to change his sexual outlook to include women as well in his porn. Like a lot of people have already pointed out, male-male action in a straight porno can no longer be considered straight, not due to the porn industry, but due to the way sexual boundaries have been set by the current times.

[art]

I personally believe there is a stifling political correctness in the straight porn industry that dismisses the male-male interaction out of hand. In other words, there's no room for it. Not even a tiny itsy bitsy little inch in the corner of the room. I am frankly sick of it and will not allow it to go unchallenged. If it's left unchallenged, then the double standard becomes ingrained into the culture.

And I don't believe the industry necessarily reflects the fan base. It's 2004, not 1954. The public in general is more liberal. There is a greater visibility of male-male interactions in the public sphere. Put some of it in straight porn just as there has been female-female since day one.

Look, you're entitled to defend the status quo. Conservatives tend to do that. Those who wish to make the room smaller wish to do that. I'm into making the room bigger.

[Roto]

Then buy orgy porn. I don't get how you think you're challenging anything here. I don't think anybody here is a porn producer. Go talk to them.
You're starting to repeat yourself. Come back when you have new material because I'm having a hard time believing you anymore.

[FinkPish]

First of all, you need to stop labeling everyone who doesn't agree with you. It doesn't forward the discussion at all and will never win anyone to your side, ergo you end up looking like an asshole. At this point, if you are trolling, then golf clap for you. Otherwise:

There is a reason that the straight porn industry is called that; it deals with porn that appeals to straight men (not necessarily straight sex), i.e. male on female, female on female (again because it is catering to straight male tastes), etc. You keep insisting that there is a market for gay male action in straight porn but I have yet to see any proof of that. The market for male-male action is mostly reserved for the gay/bisexual categories, meaning straight men are not interested in seeing two men getting it on.

Again, the double standard you keep bringing up comes from the culture, not from the porn industry. Its called Supply & Demand: Consumers Demand a Product, Suppliers Supply said Product. If said Product does not meet Demand or finds a Demand vacuum, then that Product will fail. Straight men have a preference in their porn, and the industry shifts to meet that. You are assuming that straight men are somehow being denied something that they crave, and the porn industry is withholding that craving. Bullshit. I have yet to see any proof that people other than yourself are asking for male-male action in straight porn.

I'll agree that the public is more liberal in its sexuality, and there are more gay men appearing the mainstream media, but again, there isn't any craving by straight men, to see men, gay or straight, having sex. It just doesn't exist in the world of the straight man. If it did exist, that man would cease to be straight, because he wouldn't fit the definition. And in the same way, adding a gay male sex act into a straight porn film would automatically cause it to fall from the straight porn category into gay or bisexual. It's simple semantics, a straight porn film can only be described as straight if it appeals to the straight man, but that doesn't have to only include straight sex between a man and a woman. It can include anything that appeals to a typical straight man. Once it doesn't, it can't be called straight porn.

[Brain Stew]

I won't be happy until they have male on female action in gay porn! Talk about double standards :mad:!

[Bandoman]

I, for one, would like to see some of this "brass razoo" porn art keeps talking about.

[LurkerDan]

Originally posted by FinkPish
At this point, if you are trolling, then golf clap for you. All I gotta say is, where is the damn golf clap smiley! :grunt:

[LurkerDan]

Bando, you can't handle the Brass Razoo.

[MJKTool]

I personally think this is one of the best "hook, line & sinkers" ever pulled on DVDTalk.



....at least I hope so....

[art]

FinkPish,

I believe in my heart and soul that changes need to be made to make straight porn more egalitarian. Again, I stress that I am not complaining about the porn fans. It's this monolith called the straight porn industry that's got my bile up.

As for the notion that straight men recoil from scenes of male-male interactions, that's true for some men, not all. Anyway, they're entitled to do so. I'm not about changing the preferences of straight male porn fans. But I am about making the room bigger rather than smaller or compartmentalized.

[FinkPish]

You keep talking about "making the room bigger," but there is a genre of porn for nearly any fetish or desire out there. Maybe you just aren't looking in the right places, but there is plenty of porn for any preference out there. I don't see how adding male-male scenes is somehow going to solve something that you see as wrong in the porn industry. You make it sound like there is a discrimination to male-male action in straight porn, but to me, it just doesn't belong, according to the tastes of the majority of straight men out there. You seem intent on making this your own personal crusade, and more power to you, but for me you seem to be banging your head against a wall here.
http://img29.exs.cx/img29/9638/whas.gif

[costanza]

instead of bringing up your point again and again and again and again.............. to the horndogs of dvdtalk, why not contact someone in the industry who could help you bring about these wonderful changes. why not write your congressman, or maybe a certain senator from new york's husband.

[jaeufraser]

Art, you just seem to be missing the point. If they put male male action into a straight porn...it will then be labeled...bisexual porn. There's no way around it. That's what bisexual porn is...men and women getting off with each other.

Now, could you explain, how, in God's name what you're asking for is any different than bisexual porn? Because it's in a different section of the store? There's a reason they do that, so they don't piss off customers who don't want to see that.
And could you explain what you mean by sexual ghetto? There IS NO DOUBLE STANDARD. Most men do NOT want to see same sex male activity, and men are the major purchasers of pornography. Do you really expect a business to make product that has little appeal and would lose money so as to avoid a double standard? That's just...stupid.

Art, you need to understand, that your argument makes absolutely no sense. The Chewbacca defense has more convincing merits than what you're saying.

[Bandoman]

I'm going to go to art's local video store and place "straight porn" stickers on all the bi-porn videos. Then he'll be happy.

[Tscott]

Originally posted by jaeufraser
Now, could you explain, how, in God's name what you're asking for is any different than bisexual porn? I see the difference in what he's asking, I think. In bisexual porn that's all you get - just like any other specialty title.

If you buy "Cum Swallowing Sluts", for example, what you're going to get for 5-6 scenes is a guy cuming in a girls mouth at the end. If you buy a bi-video that's what you're going to get for 5-6 scenes. If you want a bit of variety you're out of luck. I know I sometimes prefer DVDs that don't focus on one particular act, but instead have each scene be a bit different as some titles get into a rut.

art seems to be asking to expand that variety to include the possibility of guy-on-guy in a scene or two, as opposed to a title that focuses on just that.

That said, as a straight male I like watching women in porn. A woman by herself, or with another woman, or with a guy or in a group. It's pretty simple. But take the woman away and I'm not interested. Clearly this isn't the only opinion on this matter, but it seems to be the prevailing one- and I don't see it changing very soon in the future.

[jaeufraser]

Originally posted by Tscott
I see the difference in what he's asking, I think. In bisexual porn that's all you get - just like any other specialty title.

If you buy "Cum Swallowing Sluts", for example, what you're going to get for 5-6 scenes is a guy cuming in a girls mouth at the end. If you buy a bi-video that's what you're going to get for 5-6 scenes. If you want a bit of variety you're out of luck. I know I sometimes prefer DVDs that don't focus on one particular act, but instead have each scene be a bit different as some titles get into a rut.

art seems to be asking to expand that variety to include the possibility of guy-on-guy in a scene or two, as opposed to a title that focuses on just that.



Hmm I suppose he's asking for that. If that's true, then maybe just maybe he should buy...two movies. One bi porn, one straight porn.

Of course the main point is, to blast the porn industry for not catering to a small market (ie Art) is just beyond stupid.

[Roto]

Tell your significant other about this and maybe he/she will make you a porn mixtape.

[Mano]

Originally posted by costanza
instead of bringing up your point again and again and again and again.............. to the horndogs of dvdtalk, why not contact someone in the industry who could help you bring about these wonderful changes.

Paging Teagan Presley, paging Teagan Presley. I think we need our resident adult film industry representative's opinion on this highly important matter ;).

[art]

Jaeufraser,

There quite clearly exists a double standard in the straight porn industry. That's because this industry holds one form of homosexuality (i.e. female homosexuality) to a different standard than another form of homosexuality (i.e. male homosexuality). The bi or gay porn genres, on the other hand, don't have this double standard. It is unique to the straight porn industry.

Tscott,

You are correct in your interpretation of what I'm asking for in straight porn.

[art]

Just a correction to my preceding post, yes one could say that gay porn has a double standard in that it treats one form of homosexuality differently to the other. An all-male gay porn movie obviously won't be depicting female homosexuality. So I stand corrected on that.

But it's crucial to remember that gay male porn doesn't pretend to be anything else other than gay male porn. The straight porn industry, on the other hand, propagates the notion that female homosexuality is compatible with heterosexuality but that male homosexuality isn't. It's a double standard that is sold as a cultural norm to heterosexual couples.

[Bandoman]

Originally posted by art
The straight porn industry, on the other hand, propagates the notion that female homosexuality is compatible with heterosexuality but that male homosexuality isn't.

No it doesn't. It doesn't take a stand at all. It simply offers what its customers - straight males - want to see. There's absolutely no political statement or societal value judgment as to the "value" or "equality" of various sexual preferences.

[art]

BandoClassic,

When adult DVD after adult DVD portrays that female homosexuality is compatible with heterosexuality then of course there's an element of message-sending on the part of the straight porn industry. Consider also that straight porn companies like Vivid target the couples market with their product, and you have indisputable evidence of a policy in action.

It's telling heterosexuals that one form of homosexuality is cool but that the other isn't. And that grates.

[jaeufraser]

Originally posted by art
BandoClassic,

When adult DVD after adult DVD portrays that female homosexuality is compatible with heterosexuality then of course there's an element of message-sending on the part of the straight porn industry. Consider also that straight porn companies like Vivid target the couples market with their product, and you have indisputable evidence of a policy in action.

It's telling heterosexuals that one form of homosexuality is cool but that the other isn't. And that grates.

Art, you're just making things up. Ask the majority of males who buy pornography and you're going to find out that they in fact enjoy watching straight sex (male female) and lesbain sex, female female. The porn industry is hardly pushing an agenda, it's just selling what the market wants. You see, female homosexuality IS compatible with striaght sex. men are turned on by women...so you know, four breasts are better than two! And now you get to see sex WITHOUT a penis. Now, straight men have no desire whatsoever to see two men getting it on. At all. Pretend all you want, but straight men do not. If you do, you're not really straight anymore. What you seem to be confused about is that most people do not share your sexual attractions.

The fact you think that your desires somehow reflect reality and that the market is a conspiracy is not only ridiculous but arrogant also. Most men do not want to see what you're asking for. Again, answer me this. Why oh why would the porn industry include something none of their customers want? Your complaint makes about as much sense as saying there's not enough rap in country music. It's truly non-sensical, and if you would jsut reread this thread, attach your brain you'd see that.

If, and if, what you were asking for would truly sell, there's no doubt it would be out there. The market is the thing that drives your so-called double standard, not the porn industry.. And if it offends you that the majority of the population does not want to see male male action, then well...deal with it.

[DRG]

Originally posted by art
I don't give a brass razoo about your personal preferences. If you recoil from the notion of male-male interaction, then don't watch the scene or buy the movie. Simple.

This advice could apply to you as well. You don't like the straight porn industry's product? Don't watch/buy it.

Originally posted by art
By *sexual ghetto*, I mean a nice little safe place reserved for those who might offend the straight porn sensibility. When the straight porn industry says to fans of male-male interaction that they must go to the bi or gay porn genres to watch male-male, it's like saying to someone: "go to your room so you can't be seen or heard".

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe, just maybe, this is for customer convenience? You look for a specific thing and - oh my goodness - you can find it in the section it belongs in!

If I go to the supermarket and the Doritos are in the breakfast cereal aisle instead of the snack aisle, it's just confusing. Just because there may be one dude who only goes to the store to buy Doritos and Frosted Flakes, and thus it would make HIS life easier if he could get it all in one spot doesn't mean the entire supermarket should cater to his whims at the expense of everyone else.

[art]

Jaeufraser,

Stop assuming that ALL straight males wouldn't like to see male-male scenes in their straight porno movies. Stop assuming that ALL straight males will stop purchasing straight porn with a bit of male-male thrown into the mix. Those with narrow perceptions of human sexuality find it hard to believe that some straight males might find this captivating, if not stimulating.

Plus, have you ever thought that consistently watching female-female action might be a subliminal connection to male homosexuality on the part of straight males? I'm not saying it is but it bears thinking about. Perhaps some straight men who watch female-female action are really craving for some man to man heat.

In any case, I'm not saying that anyone has to change their porn-viewing habits. I'm simply asking the straight porn industry to open its mind. Put male-male interactions into straight porn to make it more egalitarian.


DRG,

I'm not recoiling from anything. I'm a very open-minded person. I accept the male-female, the female-female, and the male-male. And I don't see why, in order to see the male-male, I should be marginalized into the bi or gay porn genres by an exceedingly conservative and rigid straight porn industry.

[costanza]

Originally posted by art
Perhaps some straight men who watch female-female action are really craving for some man to man heat.


man, these chicks are hot. i wouldn't mind taking it in the ass right about now.

[Max Bottomtime]

Originally posted by art
Stop assuming that ALL straight males wouldn't like to see male-male scenes in their straight porno movies. Stop assuming that ALL straight males will stop purchasing straight porn with a bit of male-male thrown into the mix. Those with narrow perceptions of human sexuality find it hard to believe that some straight males might find this captivating, if not stimulating.

OK, all but one.

Plus, have you ever thought that consistently watching female-female action might be a subliminal connection to male homosexuality on the part of straight males? I'm not saying it is but it bears thinking about. Perhaps some straight men who watch female-female action are really craving for some man to man heat.

I don't watch a KFC commercial and get cravings for a pizza.

In any case, I'm not saying that anyone has to change their porn-viewing habits. I'm simply asking the straight porn industry to open its mind. Put male-male interactions into straight porn to make it more egalitarian.

That would make it more gay.

[chente]

That's it, I'm renting some porn tonight.

[Roto]

Originally posted by art

Plus, have you ever thought that consistently watching female-female action might be a subliminal connection to male homosexuality on the part of straight males? I'm not saying it is but it bears thinking about. Perhaps some straight men who watch female-female action are really craving for some man to man heat.
Thank you for finally coming up with some new material rotfl

[ilmmtaitw1]

Originally posted by DRG
Have you ever stopped to think that maybe, just maybe, this is for customer convenience? You look for a specific thing and - oh my goodness - you can find it in the section it belongs in!

If I go to the supermarket and the Doritos are in the breakfast cereal aisle instead of the snack aisle, it's just confusing. Just because there may be one dude who only goes to the store to buy Doritos and Frosted Flakes, and thus it would make HIS life easier if he could get it all in one spot doesn't mean the entire supermarket should cater to his whims at the expense of everyone else.

This is perhaps the very best and smartest analogy that I've heard so far on this forum. THAT is why, there are seperate sections relating to porn, so that the customer can easily go, get what he/she wants, and get it over with.

It would make no sense what-so-ever to include male homosexual scenes inside of a STRAIGHT porn movie.

Stop assuming that ALL straight males wouldn't like to see male-male scenes in their straight porno movies.

If these straight males actually WANTED to see male/male scenes, then they wouldn't be straight, right?? They would be considered bi-sexual males, and they could easily buy bi-sexual porn instead.

It's almost like saying that a 100% gay man, is going to want to see naked women inside of his gay porn video. That's absurd! If he wanted to see naked women, then he wouldn't be gay, and would rent/buy a straight porn video.

I think that Art is just TERRIFIED of being labeled bi-sexual or even gay. I don't think it has anything to do with his so-called straight porn videos not having male/male scenes. I think that he's just scared to go into a porn video store, and actually picking up bi-sexual or gay porn, because everyone would know about his sexuality...so, to hide it, he would like male homosexual scenes inside of straight porn, so that when he goes to rent/buy a porn video, everyone would automactially assume that he's straight, instead of being bi or gay.

[Big Quasimodo]

Originally posted by ilmmtaitw1
I think that Art is just TERRIFIED of being labeled bi-sexual or even gay. I don't think it has anything to do with his so-called straight porn videos not having male/male scenes. I think that he's just scared to go into a porn video store, and actually picking up bi-sexual or gay porn, because everyone would know about his sexuality...so, to hide it, he would like male homosexual scenes inside of straight porn, so that when he goes to rent/buy a porn video, everyone would automactially assume that he's straight, instead of being bi or gay.

:up:

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.....

[Ginwen]

Originally posted by Tscott
I see the difference in what he's asking, I think. In bisexual porn that's all you get - just like any other specialty title.

There used to be a series called Switch Hitters, that was mostly straight porn with mainstream actors (Peter North [in a straight scene, since you asked] and Samantha Strong were in the one I saw), but included one gay scene and one bi-scene. That was a while ago, though (mid-80's I think).

[Roto]

Wow, really? Surprising they don't make those anymore :hscratch:

[art]

Hang on a flash. If a woman is watching straight porn with her husband and the usual girl-girl scene comes on, does it make the woman gay or bisexual if she's turned on by it? I don't think so. Self-identity and what turns one on can be mutually exclusive.

[ilmmtaitw1]

If a woman is watching straight porn with her husband and the usual girl-girl scene comes on, does it make the woman gay or bisexual if she's turned on by it

Of course! If that woman is turned on by the thought of two women together, then she of course has some bi-sexual tendancies.

[art]

Hi Folks,

This is the straight porn industry talking. It's amazing how many straight couples get sucked in by this notion that we are a liberal, all-encompassing institution. On the contrary, we limit our scenes to male-female and female-female. We take for granted that female homosexuality is acceptable for straight couples but woe betide you if you should ever get thoughts about performing male-male acts. So we never include them. Never ever. Gold-plated double-standards don't come any better than this.

[Bandoman]

I don't look to the porn industry as a "liberal, all-encompassing institution". It isn't even an organized "institution". There are lots of individual companies who put out a product to make a profit. They make what sells. They're not out to advance any particualr ideology or social cause.

[Max Bottomtime]

Originally posted by art
Hi Folks,

We take for granted that female homosexuality is acceptable for straight couples but woe betide you if you should ever get thoughts about performing male-male acts. If you have thought of performing male-male acts, you have no business watching straight porn. Your section is over to your left, in the ghetto.

[digitalfreaknyc]

Originally posted by Max Bottomtime
If you have thought of performing male-male acts, you have no business watching straight porn. Your section is over to your left, in the ghetto.

*raises hand*

I beg to differ.

Just because you like watching something, doesn't mean you want it.

I had a best friend who was LESBIAN who loved to watch gay porn.

My current best friend (as do a great many of my female friends) love watching two guys go at it.

And I also have a hard time taking "straight" advice from someone with the name "bottomtime."

[Max Bottomtime]

Originally posted by digitalfreaknyc
*raises hand*

I beg to differ.

Just because you like watching something, doesn't mean you want it.

I had a best friend who was LESBIAN who loved to watch gay porn.

My current best friend (as do a great many of my female friends) love watching two guys go at it.

And I also have a hard time taking "straight" advice from someone with the name "bottomtime." Last I heard, lesbians were gay!?
If you look at my profile, you'll find that the name Max Bottomtime refers to scuba. Funny that you agree with pornography advice from someone called "Art". :D

[Bushdog]

He rubs it out to Art Garfunkel. What's the big deal?

[jaeufraser]

Originally posted by art
Jaeufraser,

Stop assuming that ALL straight males wouldn't like to see male-male scenes in their straight porno movies. Stop assuming that ALL straight males will stop purchasing straight porn with a bit of male-male thrown into the mix. Those with narrow perceptions of human sexuality find it hard to believe that some straight males might find this captivating, if not stimulating.



Art, this is your problem. You're the one making assumptions. You're assuming there are all these straight men who want to see male-male action, but can't cause it's not in their straight porn. Yes, there are men who enjoy watching men get it on who are, for the most part straight. But you know what? They can buy bisexual porn!!!

This isn't a narrow perception, the market is driven by what people like to buy, and most guys don't want to buy male male, which is why there isn't much of it.

Art, why don't you prove to us that somehow the market is wrong? That there are all these males being deprived of male male sex? It's not us who's making assumptions, we're using the market as a judge for what the majority of consumers want to see. You're using...God knows what to come to this assumption that so many males want something. In fact, I think you're just projecting your feelings on tons of other people.

This has nothing to do with being open minded. Most people don't want to see male male action, so most porn that is sold doesn't have it. Simple as that. If these men wanted the male male aciton, they'd go to the bisexual section. Basically, you're asking for a "I'm bisexual but don't want to admit it so it's not labeled that way" section which is just downright silly. I swear, a squirrel with down syndrome could understand this. I have no idea why you can't.

[digitalfreaknyc]

Originally posted by Max Bottomtime
Last I heard, lesbians were gay!?
If you look at my profile, you'll find that the name Max Bottomtime refers to scuba. Funny that you agree with pornography advice from someone called "Art". :D

Last I heard, lesbians weren't into MEN. ;) Get that?

And someone's a little touchy about their nickname.

And I never said I agreed with Art. I'm just saying I DISagreed with what you said.

I'm gay and I love my gay porn. I don't need it in straight porn. The last thing I want to see is some hairy nasty ***** where a dick should be.

[Bushdog]

Originally posted by digitalfreaknyc
Last I heard, lesbians weren't into MEN. ;) Get that?

And someone's a little touchy about their nickname.

And I never said I agreed with Art. I'm just saying I DISagreed with what you said.

I'm gay and I love my gay porn. I don't need it in straight porn. The last thing I want to see is some hairy nasty ***** where a dick should be. STOP GHETTOIZING MAN ON WOMAN SEX. We need guy on girl action in gay porn if the porn industry is going to remove all barriers and biases! :mad:

[joltaddict]

Originally posted by digitalfreaknyc
And I also have a hard time taking "straight" advice from someone with the name "bottomtime."

I brought that up back on page 2. :D

[Roto]

Originally posted by digitalfreaknyc
*raises hand*

I beg to differ.

Just because you like watching something, doesn't mean you want it.

I had a best friend who was LESBIAN who loved to watch gay porn.

My current best friend (as do a great many of my female friends) love watching two guys go at it.

And I also have a hard time taking "straight" advice from someone with the name "bottomtime."
Yeah, but she didn't expect to find man on man sex in the lesbian section did she?

[digitalfreaknyc]

Originally posted by Roto
Yeah, but she didn't expect to find man on man sex in the lesbian section did she?

Again....

I'm not supporting the original poster. i think it makes no sense.

Ya'll need to relax. As I said, don't want any nasty smelly hairy ***** in my gay porn :)

[Roto]

Jeez, do I have to put a wink for every smartass comment I post? :( You Madonna fans take things too seriously.

[art]

The notion of straight porn is really a fraud when you consider that it incorporates female homosexuality. Perhaps straight porn should be re-named bisexual porn in acknowledgement of the women who go both ways in it. It really is an industry that has not been challenged much until now but I'm here to say that it's time for this to happen. The straight porn industry needs to start incorporating male-male interactions in its movies or it will continue to be exposed as hypocritical and homophobic.

[LurkerDan]

Originally posted by jaeufraser
I swear, a squirrel with down syndrome could understand this. :lol:

[costanza]

Originally posted by art
The notion of straight porn is really a fraud when you consider that it incorporates female homosexuality. Perhaps straight porn should be re-named bisexual porn in acknowledgement of the women who go both ways in it. It really is an industry that has not been challenged much until now but I'm here to say that it's time for this to happen. The straight porn industry needs to start incorporating male-male interactions in its movies or it will continue to be exposed as hypocritical and homophobic.


do you really think that you're "challenging" the "straight" porn industry by continually posting the same silly idea on a dvd message board again and again?

[Bandoman]

DEAR THREAD PLEEZ DIE AND SEND POKEMON CARDS THANKS

[ClemsonDevil]

Originally posted by art
The straight porn industry needs to start incorporating male-male interactions in its movies or it will continue to be exposed as hypocritical and homophobic.

Those damn conservative bastards! When will they realize that they need to be more politically correct?!? I mean, doesn't everyone NEED male on male action in their porn?

[art]

I'm not attacking the straight porn fan. I'm simply saying the straight porn industry needs to get out of its narrow frame of mind and start being more egalitarian in its depiction of human sexuality. It's breathtakingly obvious how "male-homophobic" this industry is - out of thousands of straight porn dvd's, I can barely think of one that has male-male interaction. Yet nearly all of them have female-female interaction.

It seems the double standard is God in the straight porn industry.

[Birrman54]

Originally posted by art
I'm not attacking the straight porn fan. I'm simply saying the straight porn industry needs to get out of its narrow frame of mind and start being more egalitarian in its depiction of human sexuality. It's breathtakingly obvious how "male-homophobic" this industry is - out of thousands of straight porn dvd's, I can barely think of one that has male-male interaction. Yet nearly all of them have female-female interaction.

It seems the double standard is God in the straight porn industry.

you seriously dont think that this "double standard" is in fact, just capitalism? I would say that a breathtaking majority of straight porn consumers desire to see male - female, and possibly female-female interactions. I would also say that the majority of them, while not being bothered by female-female, would not appreciate the addition of male-male in their "straight porn".

The industry isn't making social commentary, they're catering to an audience. For those consumers who desire to see both, such a market exists in the BISEXUAL 'ghettos' of the porn world.

If there were any reasonably sized group of heterosexual straight porn consumers who desired to see male-male in their porn, straight porn would oblige.

birrman54

[art]

Yes it is. Yes it is. The straight porn industry DOES make a social commentary when it consistently promotes the notion that female homosexuality is nice and natural within the heterosexual sphere - let there be no mistake about this. Otherwise, you wouldn't have companies like Vivid promoting their straight porn movies as "couples movies". By doing this, they ingrain into the heterosexual culture the double standard.

And I refuse to believe that all straight males would be offended by a bit of male-male interaction in their straight porn movies. Many might but some won't.

[Roto]

http://blue-heron.us/weblog/icons/Beating_a_Dead_Horse_FINAL.gif
I think it's time you took your crusade somewhere else. All you do is repeat the same point over and over again and you don't join in any other threads.

[FinkPish]

Yes, please go. You aren't making any headway here, and if you really want change, this isn't the place to get it done. Discussion is one thing, but this is just lecturing.

[joltaddict]

Originally posted by Bandoman
DEAR THREAD PLEEZ DIE AND SEND POKEMON CARDS THANKS

IT HURTZ WHEN YUO DO THAT?