Vicious POV Slutz

[ViciousZach]

Vicious Media fulfills all of your fantasies with their latest release Vicious POV Slutz. Directed by adult star Eric Hunter, Vicious POV Slutz gives you a first person perspective of what it's like to get down and dirty with five gorgeous adult starlets. Innocent Brooke Haven wants to please only you on her couch. The sensual blonde bombshell Davia Ardell needs you to anally pleasure her. Sexy Latina Layla wants to taste you on her tongue. Roxy Jezel wants to scream your name while you ravage her body. And Shy Love wants to feel you inside her before you explode all over her body.

Vicious POV Slutz is the latest title in Vicious Media's expanding catalog of adult features. Once inside your DVD player, Vicious POV Slutz will tempt your impulses as you can choose the position you engage these starlets in.

If it isn't Vicious, it just isn't...

[XCritic Editor]

Zach,

Welcome to the adult talk forum. First off I need to let you know that we don't permit companies to use the forum to advertise their releases.

You are more than welcome to participate in the forum, discuss your releases/etc, but please do not post ads.

Also the BEST way to get people to find out about your release is to send it to us for review!!!

[Seantn]

Isn't this exactly what Sonny was doing in her other post, but in that one you welcomed her with open arms? Not that I blame you, but still...

[Houstondon]

Isn't this exactly what Sonny was doing in her other post, but in that one you welcomed her with open arms? Not that I blame you, but still...

Sunny posted a picture, represents a company that has long been friendly to DVD Talk, and was encouraged to participate as such while Zach posted a straight out advertisement without permission. There's a difference, whether you disagree or not.

Frankly, I've seen a few clips of Vicious Media releases and I'm happy that they all had one of my favorite gals, Shy Love, in them. Gamelink sells their downloads for under $9 @ and maybe they'll start selling the company's DVDs if we start reviewing them. In time, maybe having a separate forum for companies to post such generic press releases would be a good idea although I doubt many of you really listen to such marketinghype any more than I do... ;)

[Bushdog]

Isn't this exactly what Sonny was doing in her other post, but in that one you welcomed her with open arms? Not that I blame you, but still...
Sean - BestBuy has agreements and partners with Samsung and Samsung can advertise (end caps, etc....) inside of BestBuy. Meanwhile they have no such agreement with say Sanyo. If Sanyo comes in to put up an endcap display, BestBuy is well within their rights to remove it.

I'm sure that Geoff is looking out for the best interest of the forum. Why not let him decide who can promote materials and how they can promote them?

[Buford T Pusser]

Vicious POV Slutz will tempt your impulses as you can choose the position you engage these starlets in.




I've been looking for some vicious slutz to tempt my impulses. THANKSSSSSSS!!!!!11


If it isn't Vicious, it just isn't...



http://www.ilikemusic.com/images/article_images/full/vicious.jpg

[NCMojo]

Sean - BestBuy has agreements and partners with Samsung and Samsung can advertise (end caps, etc....) inside of BestBuy. Meanwhile they have no such agreement with say Sanyo. If Sanyo comes in to put up an endcap display, BestBuy is well within their rights to remove it.

I'm sure that Geoff is looking out for the best interest of the forum. Why not let him decide who can promote materials and how they can promote them?
From what I understand, this posters on this forum are not supposed to be shills for any company -- clearly Vivid has decided to bring in some guerrilla marketers and get some "free" advertising:

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=457726
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=458468
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=457281
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=458468
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=456880

As for the idea that some of these new posters are "real" adult entertainers... well, how do we know? These could be fat, pimply 22 year old guys just posting under the name of Sunny Leone or whatever. We don't know, and I don't think we should be differentiating just because one spammer throws up some tits and ass.

If Geoff is making some money on this deal (and I hope he is), then I think these threads should be clearly marked as advertising so we can choose whether or not to participate. Better still... I think this kind of stealth advertising should be eliminated. It's dishonest at best.

[XCritic Editor]

If Geoff is making some money on this deal (and I hope he is), then I think these threads should be clearly marked as advertising so we can choose whether or not to participate. Better still... I think this kind of stealth advertising should be eliminated. It's dishonest at best.

I'm not.

What I've done is invited people from the industry to participate in the forum. There's definately an anjustment period here as they learn the way things are done around here.

But the goal is to have adult stars in the adult forum... sound good?

[bmello]

But the goal is to have adult stars in the adult forum... sound good?

Sure, just make it a requirement that the chicks have to post some good nudes!:eyebrow:

[Bushdog]

What I've done is invited people from the industry to participate in the forum. There's definately an anjustment period here as they learn the way things are done around here.

And vice-versa for the membership, no doubt.

[NCMojo]

I'm not.

What I've done is invited people from the industry to participate in the forum. There's definately an anjustment period here as they learn the way things are done around here.

But the goal is to have adult stars in the adult forum... sound good?
Yes, as long as they are actual members, and not merely paid shills. Members are not allowed to advertise their own for-profit sites -- and yet you have repeatedly allowed some of the folks at Vivid (including howard@vivid (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/member.php?partner_id=59826076&partner_id=59826076&userid=69215) and Sunny Leone (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=458468)) to plug their own products and shill their own productions -- an affront that would be a banishable offense for anyone else.

Geoff, again, it's your site. You can do what you want. But I think you're tiptoing on a very fine line. If you let some of these professionals come and shill here for their adult video products, then why not let some of the folks from Sony Pictures come over and shill for Spiderman 3? Why not let Ubisoft advertise their latest Prince of Persia game?

The end result is that we'll have to take every post by every member with a grain of salt -- are these real people interested in having a real conversation (or what passes for a real conversation in some corners)... or are they really just interested in pitching me their latest product?

Slippery slope, Geoff. Your site and all... but I don't think it's a good idea.


EDIT TO ADD: I think this discussion might want to be continued (sans links) in the Feedback Forum...

[spainlinx0]

I assume he gets some kickback for letting them advertise their own site so I don't really have a problem since I enjoy this forum. Besides I think it's pretty easy to tell who a shill is from their posting.

[XCritic Editor]

I DO NOT get ANY KICKBACKS from performers or studios to come and participate in the forum. I WELCOME both adult and mainstream studios and performers to connect with the people who buy their products and engage in a discussion.

The fact that a few of these performers/studios made mis-steps when first posting and posted promotional material was their mistake, and all of them have been advised that indeed it's a mistake.

But the intent here is positive and ultimately of benefit for all involved, performers and studios get feedback and readers get to have an impact!

[Giantrobo]

Geoff :up:

[Houstondon]

The end result is that we'll have to take every post by every member with a grain of salt...


Wow! You mean up until now you've believed "every post by every member" as the gospel truth?!? Talk about lowering your expectations...

Otherwise, given that G! has (repeatedly) spoken, it's safe to say that a few of you have been "tiptoing on a very fine line". NC, keep in mind that the thread about Vivid going condom-optional was just as valid in this forum as anything else. The Senior Vice President of one of the world's largest porn production companies was asking for feedback on the matter. As much as I'm sure all of you think he should've just taken my word for it, I don't think his posting was at all problematic (especially given the very prevalent notion that all Vivid movies are strictly condom).

I suppose you'd prefer that he just hit the "start a discussion" link on reviews each time one comes up on the website and add in some annecdotal comments or post some stills from the movies in question but the specific guidelines are G!'s to make, not yours, mine or anyone else's. Further, it's not like he's hiding behind a dozen aliases or you can't tell who he is (and this was a HUGE problem on a specific website I used to review for). There have been a number of mainstream companies that have tried to do just that in the past here. I still support a press release area as a subsection of this NEWLY separated Adult forum but harping on the matter is not going to win any converts to your cause.

[El Scorcho]

When did Mojo become DVDTalk forum consultant?

[Graftenberg]

Geoff, again, it's your site. You can do what you want.





What I've done is invited people from the industry to participate in the forum.

:wave:

[NCMojo]

Wow! You mean up until now you've believed "every post by every member" as the gospel truth?!? Talk about lowering your expectations...
I don't expect that every post by every member is the gospel truth. But I do assume that most people are on this forum to engage in some kind of discussion... not push their latest product.

Why are you arguing this point, Don? Is someone from Vivid sending you a check to come in here and stand up for the company? If you turn around and start saying things like, "And some of their condom-optional videos are quite good -- check out Dirty Sluts Spank My Ass for some hot action"... are you speaking as a consumer or as a paid shill?

(I used your name just to make an example -- I honestly do believe that you receive no money from Vivid or any other adult entertainment company, and that you're posting openly and honestly. But if we start up a practice of allowing company reps to post as openly as standard forum members... well, is Howard@Vivid really going to be sharing with the community, or is he going to be only interested in what affects Vivid? Is he going to honestly participate, or is he just going to be talking about and promoting Vivid?)


I still support a press release area as a subsection of this NEWLY separated Adult forum but harping on the matter is not going to win any converts to your cause.
I agree with this idea -- at least that way, we'd know ahead of time what to expect -- but I think that Geoff should at least get some kind of click-through revenue, and we should open this up to any and all adult entertainment companies. But I still see that as a very slippery slope.

Finally, as you said... this is Geoff's site, and he can do what he wants. One of the reasons I believe that this forum has grown as much as it has is because it freely welcomes input from its members -- it's not just one supreme deity running the site and applying the rules arbitrarily. All the credit in the world for that goes to Mr. Kleinman. I'd like to think that he welcomes honest criticism and opinions, and that he considers the opinions of all forum members before he decides on any policy. That's what makes DVDTalk work.

[NCMojo]

When did Mojo become DVDTalk forum consultant?
Why are you making a point of following up behind me and questioning my intentions? This has become something of a pattern. If you have a direct question for me, drop me an e-mail; if you object to something I say, speak to that. If you think I am crossing the line in what I post, click on the Report to Moderator button.

I am not a forum consultant for DVDTalk. As I stated earlier, I'm a member here, just like you, and I am entitled -- some would say, even encouraged -- to give my opinion.

I like you, El Scorcho. You introduced me to one of my all-time favorite bands, Brand New (http://www.fightoffyourdemons.com). You'll always be cool in my book. :up:

[XCritic Editor]

One of the reasons I believe that this forum has grown as much as it has is because it freely welcomes input from its members -- it's not just one supreme deity running the site and applying the rules arbitrarily.

Fair point. And I want to make sure you realize your input is appreciated. My attempt is to communicate what I see the direction of this area on our forum is going.

I recognize that it's a bit of a bumpy road, and that things seem to have gotten started off in more a promotional space from the adult companies. This is why I PERSONALLY have been sending notes to these posters to educate them on proper forum conduct.

My best advice for this forum is... be the change you'd like to see. If you'd like more conversational interaction w/ these studios and stars then make it so by conversing with them...

[Houstondon]

I don't expect that every post by every member is the gospel truth. But I do assume that most people are on this forum to engage in some kind of discussion... not push their latest product.

Why are you arguing this point, Don? Is someone from Vivid sending you a check to come in here and stand up for the company? If you turn around and start saying things like, "And some of their condom-optional videos are quite good -- check out Dirty Sluts Spank My Ass for some hot action"... are you speaking as a consumer or as a paid shill?

(I used your name just to make an example -- I honestly do believe that you receive no money from Vivid or any other adult entertainment company, and that you're posting openly and honestly. But if we start up a practice of allowing company reps to post as openly as standard forum members... well, is Howard@Vivid really going to be sharing with the community, or is he going to be only interested in what affects Vivid? Is he going to honestly participate, or is he just going to be talking about and promoting Vivid?)

My initial comment was simply relating to your choice of words. "The end result is that we'll have to take every post by every member with a grain of salt..." is a pretty big change from the alternative. Howard purposely posts with "Vivid" attached to his handle and therefore you can take what he says as acompany rep any way you like, a far cry from some in the past that made up some bogus name to likewise promote their product/company.

Just as someone could (perhaps unfairly) accuse you of arguing your side of the matter as being a competitor of Vivid, I believe my stance has been quite clear and for obvious reasons. I've been an adult reviewer and consumer for years both here and elsewhere. As such, for better or worse, that has given me direct access to many in the industry (some of whom hate how I'll point out flaws, inconsistencies, or relative lack in value of their product just as some have openly expressed an appreciation for honest reviews, taking their lumps and working on improving what they offer). Getting the companies to actively participate in the forums where the rest of you can have access to their reps is admittedly a double edged sword but allows them to get a better idea of what consumers want directly and not needing to rely on reviewers or others that aren't strictly consumers.

I can give you the names of reviewers elsewhere that have openly crossed over from being critical CONSUMER advocates to becoming paid off COMPANY shills if you like but the bottom line is that I'll defend their participation in the forums and having some initial flexibility AS GRANTED BY G! in stuff like this. That doesn't mean they get a free walk, become a virtual protected class as has happened on other websites, or are above criticism (if you read some of my Vivid reviews, you can see why Howard and company have aged a bit faster in recent years) but if there were a poll asking how many "regular members" (I'm unaware of a separate class of membership by the way) would like to see more participation by those in the porn industry, I venture to say that the numbers would be largely in their favor.

As far as what Howard, Sunny, Zach, and others write about, respond to, or otherwise feel worthy of attention is up to them, just like all the other "regular members" as defined by people who sign up. As long as they don't start multiple accounts, hide behind aliases (which has happened before), or get carried away with what they do, I guess I don't see the harm in giving them some slack. Those of you that don't want to read what they have to say can follow the time-honored tradition of avoiding their posts or start ignoring them.

Finally, as you said... this is Geoff's site, and he can do what he wants. One of the reasons I believe that this forum has grown as much as it has is because it freely welcomes input from its members -- it's not just one supreme deity running the site and applying the rules arbitrarily. All the credit in the world for that goes to Mr. Kleinman. I'd like to think that he welcomes honest criticism and opinions, and that he considers the opinions of all forum members before he decides on any policy. That's what makes DVDTalk work.

Personally, I appreciate that many of you are out there are keeping the website "honest" for lack of a better term. G! has no intention of turning this into the latest version of rame where the spammers have overrun the place or you wouldn't see me spend so much time reviewing here. That said, after he has repeatedly responded in a thread (or three) about a topic and made it clear what his stance was about something, carrying on about it with nothing new to add seems like beating a dead horse. Your continued use of the term "shill", for example, defies the logic of the situation since they are openly affiliated with Vivid, not pretending to be fans and otherwise drumming up business.

If your intent was to change G!'s mind, you'd have privately emailed him about this. As it stands, you're the one using the public forums trying to (or at least appearing to) stir up the masses about the topic. As I said, the open participation by companies and performers is something more than a few would like to encourage. If you think one of them goes over the line in promoting their latest product, by all means fire off a message as is done every day on the forums. If you'd like an open policy discussion, start a thread in the Forum Feedback and Support portion of the website.

"A shill is an associate of a person selling a good or service, who pretends no association and assumes the air of an enthusiastic customer. The intention of the shill is, using crowd psychology, to encourage other potential customers, unaware of the set-up, to purchase said good or service. " Wikipedia definition of a shill

[NCMojo]

Just as someone could (perhaps unfairly) accuse you of arguing your side of the matter as being a competitor of Vivid, I believe my stance has been quite clear and for obvious reasons.
Perhaps?!?!?!!!!! :mad:

No, no, just kidding. As I said earlier:
I honestly do believe that you receive no money from Vivid or any other adult entertainment company, and that you're posting openly and honestly.
If the new members from Vivid use you as an example and bring the same integrity and impartiality to their posts, then I think everything will be fine.

[Buford T Pusser]

If the new members from Vivid use you as an example and bring the same integrity and impartiality to their posts, then I think everything will be fine.


and if they don't? :eek:

[NCMojo]

Then everything won't be fine. Honestly, Buford... must I repeat everything?

-ohbfrank-

[Buford T Pusser]

Just wanted to make sure.

[Houstondon]

Buford: If they don't live up to the standards we impose, we'll hunt them down and slay them like the dogs. How's that? ;)

[Buford T Pusser]

Now that's vicious. :thumbsup: